[LSC9901]

COVINGTON, Ky. (AP) -- A federal judge said attorneys for NASCAR, International Speedway Corporation and Kentucky Speedway should consider returning to the bargaining table.
U.S. District Court judge William Bertelsman said Monday an expected monthlong trial, followed by several years of appeals, could be avoided if the two sides continue mediation.
NASCAR and ISC attorneys asked Bertelsman for a summary judgment Monday, arguing the speedway has insufficient evidence to prove NASCAR and ISC worked together with other tracks to keep the Kentucky track from acquiring a NASCAR Nextel Cup race.
Bertelsman said he won't rule on the motion until January at the earliest. A March 4, 2008 trial date already has been set.

No end in sight for lawsuit between NASCAR, ISC and Ky. Speedway - NASCAR - Yahoo! Sports

[Quality88]

BULLSH!T!...........

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

COVINGTON, Ky. (AP) -- A federal judge said attorneys for NASCAR, International Speedway Corporation and Kentucky Speedway should consider returning to the bargaining table.
U.S. District Court judge William Bertelsman said Monday an expected monthlong trial, followed by several years of appeals, could be avoided if the two sides continue mediation.
NASCAR and ISC attorneys asked Bertelsman for a summary judgment Monday, arguing the speedway has insufficient evidence to prove NASCAR and ISC worked together with other tracks to keep the Kentucky track from acquiring a NASCAR Nextel Cup race.
Bertelsman said he won't rule on the motion until January at the earliest. A March 4, 2008 trial date already has been set.

No end in sight for lawsuit between NASCAR, ISC and Ky. Speedway - NASCAR - Yahoo! Sports

This will be the most important topic discussed by race fans during the off-season and the first part of next season. I believe that prediction down to the bottom of my cynical little heart.

I also predict that IF the case starts looking as though it's going Jerry Carroll's (Kentucky's) way, and there is a threat that NASCAR will have to open its books to the public, there will be a settlement, giving Kentucky a race, faster than Brittany can shed her thong.

If you start hearing rumors about ISC's buying Pocono, then look for above settlement to follow.

[3fanforever]

Someone please tell me why NASCAR is do dead set against a Cup race in Kentucky? I think I know why, but I'd like someone who knows more than me to explain it.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by 3fanforever

Someone please tell me why NASCAR is do dead set against a Cup race in Kentucky? I think I know why, but I'd like someone who knows more than me to explain it.

Market.

NA__AR has no desire to centralize its racing. It wants it spread throughout the country, and for the tracks to be very close to the large metro areas.

Darlington for the California fiasco
Rockingham for Las Vegas
Silly attempts to put tracks in areas where they aren't wanted (NYC and Seattle).

NA__AR already has Cup and Cup Lite racing relatively close to Kentucky, Indy, Nashville, and Joliet (Joliet is within a 4-5 hour drive, I believe).

To quote Watergate's Deep Throat" character, "Follow the money."

[Quality88]

Bob, you neglected to mention that neither NA$CAR nor Bruton Smith own the track.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Quality88

Bob, you neglected to mention that neither NA$CAR nor Bruton Smith own the track.

Point very well taken, my friend. Probably the main reason I omitted that was the fact that neither ISC or SMI have tried to buy the track.

Don't worry, you'll get the date, sometime in the not-too-distant future. Jerry Carroll is going for an anti-trust verdict and that would force NA__AR to open its books, unlike publicly traded ISC whose books are a matter of public record. That would be NA__AR worse nightmare.

I admit to not being a legal expert, but from a layman's point of view, Carroll has a lock on the case. The biggest problem I see is which race date will ISC dump? My bet is Martinsville if ISC doesn't buy Pocono.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Point very well taken, my friend. Probably the main reason I omitted that was the fact that neither ISC or SMI have tried to buy the track.

Don't worry, you'll get the date, sometime in the not-too-distant future. Jerry Carroll is going for an anti-trust verdict and that would force NA__AR to open its books, unlike publicly traded ISC whose books are a matter of public record. That would be NA__AR worse nightmare.

I admit to not being a legal expert, but from a layman's point of view, Carroll has a lock on the case. The biggest problem I see is which race date will ISC dump? My bet is Martinsville if ISC doesn't buy Pocono.

A valid point yourself my friend

[3fanforever]

Thanks Bob and Quality88. I figured it was because France didn't own the track, therefore he wouldn't get his greedy hands on all the money. But your point makes allot of sense too, Bob. I guess it's a sad sign of the times, when France keeps looking for areas where they aren't enough fans to fill a track, instead of giving a race to a track where the biggest fan base is, and always has been.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by 3fanforever

Thanks Bob and Quality88. I figured it was because France didn't own the track, therefore he wouldn't get his greedy hands on all the money. But your point makes allot of sense too, Bob. I guess it's a sad sign of the times, when France keeps looking for areas where they aren't enough fans to fill a track, instead of giving a race to a track where the biggest fan base is, and always has been.

Please don't delude yourself into thinking that NA__AR is about stock car racing and competition. It's about personalities, making money and getting you to part with yours. IF there happens to be a good race somewhere along the way, it's coincidental and is looked at as being just a plus.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a card-carrying capitalist and I love to see people and companies make money...lots of it. However, I believe that there is a place in our society for sports competition. If someone makes a buck out of that, that's OK, but if they ruin the competition for the sake of making money, that really gets under my last good nerve.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

but if they ruin the competition for the sake of making money, that really gets under my last good nerve.

Amen, my friend, Amen.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Quality88

Bob, you neglected to mention that neither NA$CAR nor Bruton Smith own the track.

Speaking of Bruton Smith ...

I read an article in the local newspaper last week regarding Smith's purchase of NHIS, now renamed New Hampshire Motor Speedway.

Smith would not confirm that he will remove one of the Cup races. A "spokesman" said that Smith may try to book CTS and Busch (Nationwide) events.

This spokesman also mentioned that Smith may expand the track since the track has sold out consistently. If that's the case, he's in for some strong opposition from the state of New Hampshire and the locals. When Bob Bahre wanted to expand the stands to 130,000, he had to settle for 91,000. The land ... and it's huge ... was also a fight.

Expansion? Excuse me? A couple of years ago, you couldn't get a ticket. Now, you can get a ticket within a week before the Cup race. Seating compacity at Loudon is pretty much done. You've got a solid front stretch, and turns 1/2 and 3/4. Only other place is on the backstretch where campers hang out and sit in lawn chairs on the hill. Giving a big track that "home town" feeling. Smith is going to destroy this!

It's all about money, my friends! No getting around it!

Give Kentucky a damn race! Makes far more sense than building a track in NYC!

Bob, as for Brittany's thong, last I heard/saw it's already been shed!

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Speaking of Bruton Smith ...


This spokesman also mentioned that Smith may expand the track since the track has sold out consistently. If that's the case, he's in for some strong opposition from the state of New Hampshire and the locals. When Bob Bahre wanted to expand the stands to 130,000, he had to settle for 91,000. The land ... and it's huge ... was also a fight.

Expansion? Excuse me? A couple of years ago, you couldn't get a ticket. Now, you can get a ticket within a week before the Cup race. Seating compacity at Loudon is pretty much done. You've got a solid front stretch, and turns 1/2 and 3/4. Only other place is on the backstretch where campers hang out and sit in lawn chairs on the hill. Giving a big track that "home town" feeling. Smith is going to destroy this!

It's all about money, my friends! No getting around it!

Give Kentucky a damn race! Makes far more sense than building a track in NYC!

!

What I've heard is that since Louden is as close to NYC as a track is goinbg to get in the near future, bruton is going to keep two dates and turn the track into a Las Vegas East. I understand he's going to create a racing complex there and have lots of gimmicks to draw fans, like the "Neon Garage" they have at Las Vegas.

I think Las Vegas will get a second date in 2009 and my bet is that it is the fall Atlanta race.

I haven't seen it reported here yet but Bruton got what he wanted and is keeping the Concord track. That's good but it's a snake with two heads.

The bad part is that (I don't have the exact figure) it's going to cost in excess of $80 million for the drag strip and another $120 million for improvements to Charlotte Motor Speedway.

Of that proposed $200 million the city, county and Sate have agreed to ante up $80 million, plus another $12 million in tax incentives! That wouldn't be bad but... whenever the government agrees to pay, guess who foots the bill? All the tax paying inhabitants of the city, the county and the entire State, that's who! The county is already talking about a sales tax increase.

Believe me, folks, the public DOES NOT want the local governments to get too involved in sports arenas, stadiums and tracks.

While the area gets a benefit, the bottom line is that the sports complex is privately owned and the vast majority of the profits are going into the owner's pockets and the taxpayer is left holding the bill.

Plus, as Bruton just proved, the sports complex's fate is solely in the hands of the owner, If, on day, he decides he wants to pack up and vacate, it can happen.

Do the names NY baseball Giants, Brooklyn Dodgers, Los Angles Rams, Baltimore Colts, or Houston Astros mean anything to any of you? All were major league teams with hughe government-financed incentives and one day <Poof!> gone.

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Speaking of Bruton Smith ...

I read an article in the local newspaper last week regarding Smith's purchase of NHIS, now renamed New Hampshire Motor Speedway.

Smith would not confirm that he will remove one of the Cup races. A "spokesman" said that Smith may try to book CTS and Busch (Nationwide) events.

This spokesman also mentioned that Smith may expand the track since the track has sold out consistently. If that's the case, he's in for some strong opposition from the state of New Hampshire and the locals. When Bob Bahre wanted to expand the stands to 130,000, he had to settle for 91,000. The land ... and it's huge ... was also a fight.

Expansion? Excuse me? A couple of years ago, you couldn't get a ticket. Now, you can get a ticket within a week before the Cup race. Seating compacity at Loudon is pretty much done. You've got a solid front stretch, and turns 1/2 and 3/4. Only other place is on the backstretch where campers hang out and sit in lawn chairs on the hill. Giving a big track that "home town" feeling. Smith is going to destroy this!

It's all about money, my friends! No getting around it!

Give Kentucky a damn race! Makes far more sense than building a track in NYC!

Bob, as for Brittany's thong, last I heard/saw it's already been shed!

A view from the dark side of the Moon (Absolutely a truly creative Pink Floyd effort):

Bruton can/might be the very best partner/friend/ally of the NE NASCAR fan base. Assuming there really is a dedicated and true fan base there of any significance. And that ain't a judgement, for the true judgement will be the response of the existing (or non-existing) fan base in the geography.

If accurate and true, B-baby is to move towards:

1. try to book CTS and Busch (Nationwide) events
2. expand the track

He (Bruton) apparently has a fight on his hands - "he's in for some strong opposition from the state of New Hampshire and the locals" and "When Bob Bahre wanted to expand the stands to 130,000, he had to settle for 91,000". So the State and locals prevailed, and now the stands aren't full at 91,000. Not sure where the failing is there, but there sure seems a failing exists. Only clear non-failure was B-baby. So it was the locals, the State, Bahre, or the fans. Oh. OK, for those who need the perrenial whipping boy - Brian.

IF underlined description of intended efforts and challenges above is accurate/true, it is consistent with what must be (like it or not) to preserve top level events in a geography today. IF defined initiatives are are carried out with a true desire to retain race dates in the geography, the only remaining potential failing will be lack of fan support.

If B-baby carries out per above definition, the end result will be decided by fan support.

Gonna be interesting.

One thing fairly sure - if the fans don't show, the race will go. Come on NE NASCAR fans! Save this one please.

[Racer Duck]

for sure Mr. Smith is a businessman first .. and if something doesn't perform he'll either change it or can it. I suspect '08 will the the "test" year and '09 will be the "announce changes" year. (Mr. Smith doesn't have many years left, so he won't dawdle on this.)