[kellyjr]

his ability...overrated...his arrogance...give me a break...i would have liked to see him racing "the old school way", he needs to be taught R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

From my perspective it leaves him [Franchitti] in the same boat.

My statements about "misplaced nationalism," dislike because of accent or country of origin, etc., etc., do not, repeat: DO NOT, and just to make it perfectly clear: DO NOT reflect upon the members of this forum. In fact, this forum, being comprised of educated, informed and open-minded folk, is an antithesis to my feelings. My statements are aimed at the people who follow NA__AR generally.

That being said, Dario'll probably have an easier time. He's a Scotsman and because his language is similar to ours, and he looks like us. Ditto, Dan Wheldon, when he makes the move to stock cars, ditto Marcus Ambrose. Now, if Castroneves, Dunno, Meira or Matsuura would move over, that might be another story. It's just the way people are. If things weren't this way, you'd never have German communities, Italian communities, or Chinese communities in our larger cities. People just like to favor people who look like them, sound like them and have the same basic heritage they have.

Deny it if you want but everyday life will prove me right. I don't make society's rules, I just observe them.

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I guess I just don't understand why they jump from the top series in one type of car to the top series in another type of car. This isn't like trading in your Ford for a Chevrolet and having trouble learning where the wiper switch is. This is 150 MPH's (+/-) with a totally different driving car.

When they do as you state, I can sum the answer up in a single word; Ego.

But, when you take into consideration the age many of they open wheel drivers are at, plus the driving experience at high speeds they possess, expecting them to spend three or four years in late models and the lower regions of NA__AR is kind of ... not necessary and pointless.

Montoya did some ARCA and Cup Lite gigs before he started at Daytona this season. Villenueue has been running CTS and when he started his first Cup race he got out of everyone's way and dropped to the rear of the field. Franchitti's going to run a full season of Cup Lite before he moves to Cup full time.

If you were running 200 MPH at Talladega who would you want running next to you; Villenueue or Franchitti, even with a their lack of stock car experience, or Eric Amirola, Regan Smith or Buckshot Jones?

Originally Posted by LSC9901

David Ragan who is not a foreigner obviously didn't have enough experience. I saw him as an inexperienced driver making a mess on the track ... too often. I understand that accidents happen even to the veteran drivers but I would like to believe that experience decreases the stats in that department.

Roush likes him. I guess that counts for something.

Originally Posted by LSC9901

So where will Franchitti fit in ??? Watch the first few races and then you'll have a much better idea.

Franchitti will be a middle of the pack Cup Lite driver, except on the road courses. I have yet to see any of these recent open wheelers who are stupid enough to not realize that they have a lot of learning to do before they can safely run with the top drivers.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

If you were running 200 MPH at Talladega who would you want running next to you; Villenueue or Franchitti, even with a their lack of stock car experience, or Eric Amirola, Regan Smith or Buckshot Jones?

My theory here is that just because one is trained, it doesn't make them competent. How many college degree holders have you known that can't even tie their own shoes ?? Same applies to some drivers who have come up through the ranks. There are teams who cannot afford Gordon, Harvick or whoever might be in the above average catagory but they'll take a chance with a Ragan because he has some experience, is inexpensive to sign and as the owner you have less than stellar sponsorship anyway. That is why some of them make it into th etop series.

With all that said, yes maybe I would want an open wheel driver next to me at 200 MPH, but now ask one of the experienced veteran drivers if they want the open wheeler next to them at 200 MPH.

Logically there is no right answer here unless we all look at it from the same perspective ... which we don't.

[clutch]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Deny it if you want but everyday life will prove me right. I don't make society's rules, I just observe them.

Bob that is well stated my friend.......for anyone to think different is fooling oneself

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by clutch

Bob that is well stated my friend.......for anyone to think different is fooling oneself

I appreciate that, my friend.

I'm sure my statements about why some people dislike Juan Pablo, and others... Well, I'm sure those statements make some as nervous as a dog passing peach seeds.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I appreciate that, my friend.

I'm sure my statements about why some people dislike Juan Pablo, and others... Well, I'm sure those statements make some as nervous as a dog passing peach seeds.

now there's a mental image I could have done without...

[NASCAR Gnome]

Some people dislike JPM simply because he's not Caucasian. Am I wrong in making that assumption?

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by NASCAR Gnome

Some people dislike JPM simply because he's not Caucasian. Am I wrong in making that assumption?

that's 100% accurate

i think it was made perfectly clear at Watkins Glen (i believe it was) when he got into it with Harvick ....... many drivers (imo) showed they didnt accept JPM because he is not a 'good old boy'

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by NASCAR Gnome

Some people dislike JPM simply because he's not Caucasian. Am I wrong in making that assumption?

You are absolutely wrong in that assumption. He uses that as an "excuse".

Beyond that ...

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by NASCAR Gnome

Some people dislike JPM simply because he's not Caucasian. Am I wrong in making that assumption?

The operative word above is "some." I'm not sure that Juan isn't a Caucasian, though. He might be of Spanish heritage or he might be of Indian (don't know which tribe is native to Columbia). I would like to believe the main reason people of radical prejudice don't like him is because he "isn't like them," in some way.

But there are also many who dislike him because
(a) he drives for Texaco
(b) he has no stock car background
(c) he's rich
(d) he comes from an F1 background
(e) they can't understand what he says
(f) they dislike his attitude
(g) they remember what he did to his team mate in Mexico
(h) they just don't like anyone

And, of course, there are those who actually believe that he is an inferior life form and has no desirable qualities, whatsoever.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by NASCAR Gnome

Some people dislike JPM simply because he's not Caucasian. Am I wrong in making that assumption?

Originally Posted by simple simon

that's 100% accurate

i think it was made perfectly clear at Watkins Glen (i believe it was) when he got into it with Harvick ....... many drivers (imo) showed they didnt accept JPM because he is not a 'good old boy'

Whoa ... hold on there cowpoke !!! Not being a good old boy and not being Caucasian is two different images for me. Dale Jr, the Burton Bros, Jarrett's ... those are good old boys. Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson, Mat Kenseth ... they are not good old boys ... at least in my view of what good old boys are.

I believe that race could be an issue but I also believe that as each day passes Americans become less concerned about nationality. Really ... how many of us are American ? I don't want to get a big race/nationality thing going but I see Juan's issue more about arrogance than the way he talks.

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I believe that race could be an issue but I also believe that as each day passes Americans become less concerned about nationality. Really ... how many of us are American ? I don't want to get a big race/nationality thing going but I see Juan's issue more about arrogance than the way he talks.

i dont know that i could disagree with you more

#1 i think simply being known as an American is becoming less valued everyday ........ African-American .... Asian-American ..... when i grew up these names didnt exist .... and now if you dont use them it is an insult to some

#2 i think some dont know - choose not to know - forget ..... whatever the case may be .... that race is still a huge issue for some in this country ........ we do still have a KKK .... we still have Neo Nazis ... we still have huge #'s of gangs ............ dont kid yourselves .. race is still a big issue for this country




and now before i get hate mail ... this post is not directed at any member here .... LSC made a statement i didnt agree with and i tried to explain why .... i dont think anyone here is a racist .. i am only saying there are racists in America and some of them are NASCAR fans and some of them dont like JPM (it may only be 2 people but it still exists)

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by simple simon

and now before i get hate mail ... this post is not directed at any member here .... LSC made a statement i didnt agree with and i tried to explain why .... i dont think anyone here is a racist .. i am only saying there are racists in America and some of them are NASCAR fans and some of them dont like JPM (it may only be 2 people but it still exists)

I agree in that your post is directed at no one and I won't argue with your reasoning. Racism in America ... well yeah. I'm not so old I can't see it but from my side of the fence I see less of it than years ago. My sister adopted 17 kids. Pick a color, pick a nationality. She's got a lot of each. I just don't see it anymore and to get back to the topic I (personally) do not see Montoya as a race issue. I dislike him for the same reasons I dislike Tony. Those reasons have zero to do with abilities and effort. I don't care if someone is a "good ole boy", a golden boy from the west, a Yankee from the north or someone from another country. When your attitude is far south of your abilities, then I have a problem with you as a driver. Stats wise Juan did well this year. Maybe not to his own expectations, which may be a part of his attitude problem.

[disco stu]

This has actually turned into quite an interesting thread, don't ya think?

So, if the unpopularity (or lack of entusiasm for, at least) of the likes of JPM etc can be attributed to them being "different" in some way...or not fitting the popular perception of "good old boys"......then, what about....

.....whisper it......


.......the "good old girls"!!!!!


Will Danica be popular?

And what about Milka Dunno (I know Bob Tanner mentioned her in an earlier post...the gender thing wasn't touched on though).....Milka is female and latin isn't she?

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by disco stu

This has actually turned into quite an interesting thread, don't ya think?

So, if the unpopularity (or lack of entusiasm for, at least) of the likes of JPM etc can be attributed to them being "different" in some way...or not fitting the popular perception of "good old boys"......then, what about....

.....whisper it......


.......the "good old girls"!!!!!


Will Danica be popular?

And what about Milka Dunno (I know Bob Tanner mentioned her in an earlier post...the gender thing wasn't touched on though).....Milka is female and latin isn't she?

Since neither of them are NASCAR drivers that is a topic better discussed in the new "MotorSports Forum"