[Racer Duck]

Take this year, for example, when half of the 34 races have been won by one team, 79 percent by three and 88 percent by four. On top of that, Hendrick Motorsports teammates Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon are duking it out for the championship, with no one else in their rearview mirrors.

NASCAR is not like Formula One racing, where three teams absolutely rule the sport, but the fear is that NASCAR is ambling down the same road.

"If this becomes a battle of money, then those people who sit in the stands are going to stop watching," said Ray Evernham, co-owner of a three-car organization. "Right now, it's not a battle of money and it needs to never become that."

Dollars and sense - NASCAR - Yahoo! Sports

[DOF_power]

>



^ NASCAR, or should I say NA__AR, is already there, for most part.

It's things like the super close point system + chase + debris/cautions periods that mask this somewhat.
If not, it would have just been a Jimmy and Jeff show to an even greater extent, like Prost-Senna 88 and 89 or Hill-Villeneuve 96.



Here are the parts from the article I don't really agree with:

NASCAR is not like Formula One racing, where three teams absolutely rule the sport, ...
So how many are there then ?!
...
He insists the sport is different than Formula One because it takes into account the needs of all parties, from the track owners, to the teams, to the sponsors, to the fans.
Really ?!
...
"If we have 43 cars on the race track, with side-by-side racing that you can't see anywhere else," he explained, "if we focus on that, we think our fans will obviously embrace that."
I suggest typing "european rallycross" on youtube.
...
... Formula One, the kind of boring, follow-the-leader racing ...
Pretty much just like COT races.
Because just like COT car the F1 single-seaters are "dirty" and instable under traffic and overtaking is left to mid-field/backmarkers, witch people don't really see due to poor TV coverage (witch focuses on the leader and/or local "hero").

[kcoruol]

NASCAR should make Jimmie and Jeff start in the back of everybody, then that would give all the other drivers a better chance like they did at Talledega.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by kcoruol

NASCAR should make Jimmie and Jeff start in the back of everybody, then that would give all the other drivers a better chance like they did at Talledega.

you struck a hot button of mine! Thanks for giving me a chance to expound on this subject.

I have long believed the best driver is the one who improves their position the most in a race. Naturally, if the best driver starts on the pole, he/she has nowhere to go but down .. staying on top is not that hard, at least not compared to coming from the back of the pack to win!

I was "raised up" in racing thinking the best cars/drivers ought to start in the back and race their way to the front. There's a couple things that happen when racing this way: the car/driver proves they belong at the top of the heap; other, less skilled drivers learn by example how to drive and what it means to "finish" a race. Also, every driver soon finds out how good they and their car really are compared to the other competitors.

To prove my point, in this past race when JJ was getting close to Matt with the checker approaching, one of the announcers said "he might catch him, but can he pass?" It's not enough to go fast with an open track in front of you, but can you pass? Shouldn't the winner be one who has passed many cars for position?

Right now Matt, Kenseth seems to be the guy who always seems to start in the middle or worse but races his way to Top 10's every week!!! I wonder how well the other drivers would fare given Matt's average starting positions?

[jks812]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

Take this year, for example, when half of the 34 races have been won by one team, 79 percent by three and 88 percent by four. On top of that, Hendrick Motorsports teammates Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon are duking it out for the championship, with no one else in their rearview mirrors.

NASCAR is not like Formula One racing, where three teams absolutely rule the sport, but the fear is that NASCAR is ambling down the same road.

"If this becomes a battle of money, then those people who sit in the stands are going to stop watching," said Ray Evernham, co-owner of a three-car organization. "Right now, it's not a battle of money and it needs to never become that."

Dollars and sense - NASCAR - Yahoo! Sports

I agree with that. It's not 3 teams that absolutely rules Nascar. It seems to be only 1 team.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by jks812

I agree with that. It's not 3 teams that absolutely rules Nascar. It seems to be only 1 team.

this year HMS, last year Roush (yeah, JJ won the championship, but Roush was the dominant owner), before that Gibbs...

looks like there's several strong teams in NASCAR .. and they're all owned by a small group of owners.

[DOF_power]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

you struck a hot button of mine! Thanks for giving me a chance to expound on this subject.

I have long believed the best driver is the one who improves their position the most in a race. Naturally, if the best driver starts on the pole, he/she has nowhere to go but down .. staying on top is not that hard, at least not compared to coming from the back of the pack to win!

I was "raised up" in racing thinking the best cars/drivers ought to start in the back and race their way to the front. There's a couple things that happen when racing this way: the car/driver proves they belong at the top of the heap; other, less skilled drivers learn by example how to drive and what it means to "finish" a race. Also, every driver soon finds out how good they and their car really are compared to the other competitors.

To prove my point, in this past race when JJ was getting close to Matt with the checker approaching, one of the announcers said "he might catch him, but can he pass?" It's not enough to go fast with an open track in front of you, but can you pass? Shouldn't the winner be one who has passed many cars for position?

Right now Matt, Kenseth seems to be the guy who always seems to start in the middle or worse but races his way to Top 10's every week!!! I wonder how well the other drivers would fare given Matt's average starting positions?

GP2 uses a 2 short races instead of a long one formula. On the second race the grid is reversed.
I wonder if this would make things more interesting in NASCAR ?!

[SpaceCadet]

Originally Posted by kcoruol

NASCAR should make Jimmie and Jeff start in the back of everybody, then that would give all the other drivers a better chance like they did at Talledega.

Why not use some kind of inversion system like they do at many of the local tracks? Like, top six of each heat qualify, top four are handicapped using that division's or track's point system. Obviously, Cup cars don't run heats, but some kind of inversion system would even things out a little.

[PettyBlue]

Invert the field based on whatever in Nascar cup racing and you get one thing only.Sandbagging!

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by PettyBlue

Invert the field based on whatever in Nascar cup racing and you get one thing only.Sandbagging!

Ahhhh .... but you're assuming the entire field gets inverted. It doesn't need to be the entire field. It could be something like drivers 7-15 get sent back or forward. Run the heat/qualifying and then pick out of a hat how the inversion will work.

[PettyBlue]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Ahhhh .... but you're assuming the entire field gets inverted. It doesn't need to be the entire field. It could be something like drivers 7-15 get sent back or forward. Run the heat/qualifying and then pick out of a hat how the inversion will work.

How did that old song go?Oh ya,Dream,Dream,Dream.

[DOF_power]

"Either it's got to be tighter restrictions on people through some sort of franchising, or it's truly got to become a league that's controlled," he said. "If you wanted the best quarterback, the guys from the Jets can't go over and tell Tom Brady, 'We'll pay you $10 million more to come over here and play.' That's what we've got to stop over here."
Under the current system, NASCAR has no control over how teams deal with personnel issues. That goes back to them being independent contractors ...

This movement means that a spy scandal a la F1 is around the corner, witch is really what's missing in NASCAR these days.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

Take this year, for example, when half of the 34 races have been won by one team, 79 percent by three and 88 percent by four. On top of that, Hendrick Motorsports teammates Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon are duking it out for the championship, with no one else in their rearview mirrors.

NASCAR is not like Formula One racing, where three teams absolutely rule the sport, but the fear is that NASCAR is ambling down the same road.

"If this becomes a battle of money, then those people who sit in the stands are going to stop watching," said Ray Evernham, co-owner of a three-car organization. "Right now, it's not a battle of money and it needs to never become that."

Dollars and sense - NASCAR - Yahoo! Sports

...and it took young Mr. Hart this long to figure this all out? Obviously he doesn't log onto GTG-NA__AR much, does he? I distinctly remember this exact topic being bandied about at least twice in the almost two seasons I've been in this forum. In fact (Steve, Don, BBW and others might verify this) NA__AR has been referred to "Formula NASCAR," on multiple occasions.

I know I'm kicking NA__AR's most sacred of cows here but...I know the ground work was laid under Bill France Sr but it was on Bill Jr.'s reign that RJR brought in the obscene amounts of money to NASCAR. After that happened in 1973, today's brand of NA__AR was inevitable.

As far as the Hendrick Dominance of this season, like global warming it's perfectly natural and is a cyclical thing. Our co-leader, Ducks, makes a very valid point: wasn't it only a couple years ago Roush, Inc. had fully one-half of the Playoff teams comprised of Roush Fords? Last season Hendrick won the Cup but as I recall, Gibbs and Evernham got the bulk of the ink in the media.

Don't like Hendrick this season? Patience, my friends, patience. maybe next season but no later than 2009 the "Dream teams" will all be playing catch up to someone else (my bet is Gibbs and Toyota but who knows?)

But what we have now is the American version of F1, like it or not. Big money, rock star-like drivers, big sponsors, specially designed race cars (NEVER to be confused with "stock cars"), and the infrequent "scandal."

We even have "royalty" running the show (Brian France). I guess that we should count our blessings there; we could have Bernie Eccelstone.

'Tis a Brave, New World we stock car racing fans live in these days.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by DOF_power

GP2 uses a 2 short races instead of a long one formula. On the second race the grid is reversed.
I wonder if this would make things more interesting in NASCAR ?!

I like inverted starts at short local tracks which usually start less than half of a Cup field and the features are usually around thirty laps. Inverting a 43-car NA__AR field would lead to probably the most boring of races, where no one too many chances. Remember the Talladega race? The entire Roush team plus the Hendrick Super Stars (Jeffie and Jimmie) raced to the back of the field and stayed there until the final 100 miles, or so.

Can you say B-O-R-I-N-G? Fine. I knew you could.

Want to make NA__AR Cup racing "Interesting?" Try this:

(1) Practice on the day before race day... two or three hours.
(2) Qualify the morning of race day. Give the slowest (picking a number out of the air) fifteen cars a chance to re-qualify, throwing out their original qualifying times. Either a second car or the same car.
(3) One hour after qualification is over start the race, fastest in front.
(4) Run the race. The length will be in kilometers (.6 mile), not miles (example: the Phoenix race will be a 500K race, not 500 miles - go to Jayski for verification. Sunday's race will be 300 miles, NOT 500 miles). This will cause the drivers to "get up on the wheel" and D-R-I-V-E, not lay back and play stragety the first 3/4's of the race then go for it at the end.

My personal opinion is that this would make NA_AR a whole lot more "interesting."

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I like inverted starts at short local tracks which usually start less than half of a Cup field and the features are usually around thirty laps. Inverting a 43-car NA__AR field would lead to probably the most boring of races, where no one too many chances. Remember the Talladega race? The entire Roush team plus the Hendrick Super Stars (Jeffie and Jimmie) raced to the back of the field and stayed there until the final 100 miles, or so.

Can you say B-O-R-I-N-G? Fine. I knew you could.

Want to make NA__AR Cup racing "Interesting?" Try this:

(1) Practice on the day before race day... two or three hours.
(2) Qualify the morning of race day. Give the slowest (picking a number out of the air) fifteen cars a chance to re-qualify, throwing out their original qualifying times. Either a second car or the same car.
(3) One hour after qualification is over start the race, fastest in front.
(4) Run the race. The length will be in kilometers (.6 mile), not miles (example: the Phoenix race will be a 500K race, not 500 miles - go to Jayski for verification. Sunday's race will be 300 miles, NOT 500 miles). This will cause the drivers to "get up on the wheel" and D-R-I-V-E, not lay back and play stragety the first 3/4's of the race then go for it at the end.

My personal opinion is that this would make NA_AR a whole lot more "interesting."

you're right, it would be more interesting, but would negate NA$CAR's primary objective: $$$

with everything taking place on the same day:

• they couldn't sell tickets for multiple days;
• there would be no way to fit in the "Fan Experience";
• local merchants would not reap the benefits of the 3 days stay of the traveling road show;
• fewer fans would be tailgating;
• and most importantly, the TV Networks would have to show more re-runs of CSI:Miami & CSI:Las Vegas at reduced commercial airtime costs!!!