[PettyBlue]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

I'm with Penny on this one. That's just wacky to penalize a team for changes during the race that are out of one's control, especially because these changes seem to be very small. Is there a bona fide reason why they do that? They've got a hard enough job policing the pre-race rule pushers. Why go after stuff they all know is happening under race conditions? Was there a precedent set for this somewhere in racing history? I mean, like, did somebody intentionally mess with a shock or a bolt or whatever, with the idea that if I mess with it just this tiny bit then after 200 laps or so it will settle/shift/move enough to give us an advantage? Just seems nuts.

Did they or did they not mean for it to happen on Jeff's car?That is the question you seem to ask,SC. NASCAR.COM - Gordon's winning car fails Duels inspection - Feb 15, 2007 He passed pre and failed post race,you decide.This is just one instance for all teams.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

I'm with Penny on this one. That's just wacky to penalize a team for changes during the race that are out of one's control, especially because these changes seem to be very small. Is there a bona fide reason why they do that? They've got a hard enough job policing the pre-race rule pushers. Why go after stuff they all know is happening under race conditions? Was there a precedent set for this somewhere in racing history? I mean, like, did somebody intentionally mess with a shock or a bolt or whatever, with the idea that if I mess with it just this tiny bit then after 200 laps or so it will settle/shift/move enough to give us an advantage? Just seems nuts.

ya might say this a gray area where black and white is applied.

remember when Mark Martin was penalized for the spring being cut half an inch too short by the manufacturer .. NASCAR didn't care it was the manufacturer's fault and not something the team did, they penalized him anyway. same with the Hall Of Fame carburetor that was actually a Hendricks engine shop screw-up. When the responsible party comes forward and takes the blame and NASCAR still penalizes the team, ya know there's some folks in NASCAR who have their panties on too tight!!!.

same with parts failures .. they don't care why, only that they can penalize someone.

[SpaceCadet]

Originally Posted by PettyBlue

Did they or did they not mean for it to happen on Jeff's car?That is the question you seem to ask,SC. NASCAR.COM - Gordon's winning car fails Duels inspection - Feb 15, 2007 He passed pre and failed post race,you decide.This is just one instance for all teams.

I forgot about that! And at the risk of getting lot's of peoples panties in a bunch, I believe this little infraction was on purpose and here's why. In a pre-race interview on SPEED, Letarte was asked a question about "pushing the envelope", what it takes to be competitive. He specifically mentioned that he had been trying some new things with spring and shock adjustments, even metioning the bolts - and then abruptly shut his mouth. It was weird, so weird that I still remember it. Then lo' and behold, there's a problem with shock adjustment and bolts. That's just a little bit too coincidental, in my book. I also remember actually feeling sorry for Gordon because it was a reporter at the post race press conference that told him his car had failed inspection. Gordon's jaw just about hit the floor and all he said was "are you kidding me? Well, that sucks." Huh. Maybe I'm seeing the light. If one team's doing it, you can bet there's more. It's a tough call as to where you draw the line. We all know how good NASCAR is at making those tough calls.

[SpaceCadet]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

ya might say this a gray area where black and white is applied.

remember when Mark Martin was penalized for the spring being cut half an inch too short by the manufacturer .. NASCAR didn't care it was the manufacturer's fault and not something the team did, they penalized him anyway. same with the Hall Of Fame carburetor that was actually a Hendricks engine shop screw-up. When the responsible party comes forward and takes the blame and NASCAR still penalizes the team, ya know there's some folks in NASCAR who have their panties on too tight!!!.

same with parts failures .. they don't care why, only that they can penalize someone.

Is it just me or does this seem like a no brainer? A part is wrong, the party responsible steps up, part is fixed, no harm no foul, no penalty. It's not like stuff is shifting or settling during the race. It was manufactured wrong right from the start. They need to start wearing boxers.

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

You see? That's what throws me! I understand that fact, but how the hell can you be penalized for something you can't control? Wacky!

Anyone who has competed simply comes to know, and quite honestly and humbly accept, that crap happens, and sometimes it's gonna land on you.

Was involved with some folks that raced at a noise restricted track. Running well that night we were till something kicked up from the track and punctured a hole in the exhaust system. db level went above the limit. Black flag for us. Could give example after example. It's just a fact of life and sometimes the 'ol Foo Bird is gonna fly over you. What's the saying - if the Foo sh!ts, wear it?

Never felt that a part failure, a part purchased that was out of spec, or a part improperly installed by us, obligated the rules to bend for us or anyone else. Never saw any failure as beyond our ability and responsibility to take steps to ensure against a repeat. Tried taking a bad part out once, got everyone to gather around it and commence with a group piss and moan. Parts still bad. Decided instead to increase our discipline around from whom we acquired parts, checking them better before installation, implementing better pre and post race checklists, etc. It works, right till ya let your discipline slip.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

I'm with Penny on this one. That's just wacky to penalize a team for changes during the race that are out of one's control, especially because these changes seem to be very small. Is there a bona fide reason why they do that? They've got a hard enough job policing the pre-race rule pushers. Why go after stuff they all know is happening under race conditions? Was there a precedent set for this somewhere in racing history? I mean, like, did somebody intentionally mess with a shock or a bolt or whatever, with the idea that if I mess with it just this tiny bit then after 200 laps or so it will settle/shift/move enough to give us an advantage? Just seems nuts.

Whew! Thanks, Space! I thought I was the only one who saw how "nuts" this is!