[Bob Tanner]

Many here have read my rantings about character, honor, and how business ethics were addressed in the NASCAR of yesterday. To give you an example I took the liberty of cutting and pasting this from an answer Duck gave over on the NASCAR TRIVIA site. It shows to the extent people would take their beliefs and how far some would go to honor a committment.

"here's a story about Weatherly & the number 13:
Joe Weatherly was angry and adamant that September week in 1962. Bob Colvin was just as fiery and forceful.

"I won't run the race!" stormed the colorful Weatherly. "And you can't make me!"

"You will run," shot back Colvin. "And I can make you. We have a handshake deal!"

At issue was the 13th annual staging of the Southern 500 at Darlington Raceway in South Carolina, which at that time was NASCAR's supreme event. Weatherly's problem was with the No. 13. The former motorcycle racing champion, who was en route to two straight major NASCAR stock car titles in 1962 and '63, simply loathed the numeral. Colvin, the colorful president of the Darlington track, hated to give in. But he saw a way out that would appease Weatherly.

The Southern 500 of 1962 was renamed. It became "The 12th Renewal of the Southern 500." Weatherly got to race."

Contrary to what some might believe, this was NOT silly. It was just an example of how people of character and grounded beliefs handled things. Today's society might be well served to follow the example.

Thanks for the post, Ducks. I hope you don't mind my using it, en toto.

[Racer Duck]

no prob....

[Racer Duck]

Here's an excerpt from a poem called "The Old Paths". It's not about racing, but about the period we're referencing.

I liked the old paths, when
Moms were at home.
Dads were at work.
Brothers went into the army.
And sisters got married BEFORE having children!

Crime did not pay;
Hard work did;
And people knew the difference.

Moms could cook;
Dads would work;
Children would behave.

Husbands were loving;
Wives were supportive;
And children were polite.

Women wore the jewelry;
And Men wore the pants.
Women looked like ladies;
Men looked like gentlemen;
And children looked decent.

People loved the truth,
And hated a lie;
They came to church to get IN,
Not to get OUT!

Hymns sounded Godly;
Sermons sounded helpful;
Rejoicing sounded normal;
And crying sounded sincere.

Cursing was wicked;
Drugs were for illness;
And divorce was unthinkable.

The flag was honored;
America was beautiful;
And God was welcome!

We read the Bible in public;
Prayed in school;
And preached from house to house.

To be called an American was worth dying for;
To be called a Christian was worth living for;
To be called a traitor was a shame!

.
.
.

We've come a long way Mabel and I fear we've taken a wrong turn somewhere along the line...

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

Here's an excerpt from a poem called "The Old Paths". It's not about racing, but about the period we're referencing.

I liked the old paths, when
Moms were at home.
Dads were at work.
Brothers went into the army.
And sisters got married BEFORE having children!

Crime did not pay;
Hard work did;
And people knew the difference.

Moms could cook;
Dads would work;
Children would behave.

Husbands were loving;
Wives were supportive;
And children were polite.

Women wore the jewelry;
And Men wore the pants.
Women looked like ladies;
Men looked like gentlemen;
And children looked decent.

People loved the truth,
And hated a lie;
They came to church to get IN,
Not to get OUT!

Hymns sounded Godly;
Sermons sounded helpful;
Rejoicing sounded normal;
And crying sounded sincere.

Cursing was wicked;
Drugs were for illness;
And divorce was unthinkable.

The flag was honored;
America was beautiful;
And God was welcome!

We read the Bible in public;
Prayed in school;
And preached from house to house.

To be called an American was worth dying for;
To be called a Christian was worth living for;
To be called a traitor was a shame!

.
.
.

We've come a long way Mabel and I fear we've taken a wrong turn somewhere along the line...

Thank you. That one has been cut and pasted in my permanent reference file. Can you tell me who wrote it?

I especially liked the verse:
"Women looked like ladies;
Men looked like gentlemen;
And children looked decent."
Have you taken a trip by air recently? Or been in an establishment when some one came in applying for a job?

OK.. I'll shut up.

[Quality88]

IMHO... the wrong turn came when people turned away from the woodshed.

[Quality88]

Good poem......

[DOF_power]

>



^ A nice poem, but way way too unrealistically idealistic.
The Golden Era is a myth usually restricted to only a group of individuals not the entire society.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by DOF_power

>



^ A nice poem, but way way too unrealistically idealistic.
The Golden Era is a myth usually restricted to only a group of individuals not the entire society.

Hmmm...? Finally something we don't see eye-to-eye on. No harm there.

There are some here who, in our extended lifetimes, have seen character, morals, civility, and appearance take in very, very tough during the past half decade. I've never heard of it being referred to as "The Golden Era," but after some thought I guess an era identification is worth considering. As far as being a myth... It may not have been as good as I would like to remember it (If they were truly the "Good Old Days," then why didn't I have more fun?) but it was a time when things were simpler and more understandable.

I guess we would be best served by what Longfellow wrote in Hyperion:

"Look not mournfully into the Past. It comes back not again. Wisely improve the Present. It is thine. Go forth and meet the shadowy Future without fear and with a manly heart."

It works well except the part about improving the Present. We, of my generation, are vastly out-gunned.

'Nuff said...

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by Quality88

IMHO... the wrong turn came when people turned away from the woodshed.

i agree with this to a large degree .... my kids know how to act ... some of their friends dont .. their friends have told me if i was there parent there is no way they would act as poorly as they do ........ im not trying to toot my own horn, merely point out an example of why i agree

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

There are some here who, in our extended lifetimes, have seen character, morals, civility, and appearance take in very, very tough during the past half decade. I've never heard of it being referred to as "The Golden Era," but after some thought I guess an era identification is worth considering. As far as being a myth... It may not have been as good as I would like to remember it (If they were truly the "Good Old Days," then why didn't I have more fun?) but it was a time when things were simpler and more understandable.

im afraid you and i also part ways here Bob ........ i see many problems with the past being "The Golden Era"

one problem we have today is indeed the very means by which we are communicating right now .. the internet ....... if this were around even 35 or more years ago i believe the past would be viewed much much different

take a few examples if you will ....... Babe Ruth baseball great - but also heavy drinker and womanizer ... how would he be seen if he lived in the age of the internet and the paparazzi ? .............. Marilyn Monroe .... how would she be viewed today .. drug addict, going after married men .. i think she may not be seen much better then Ms. Spears or maybe Ms. Lewinsky

another problem i see is the selective memory and the rose tinted glasses (no offense meant, we all suffer from it imo ) ..... im not so sure the past was so simple .... World Wars - Depression - Korea - Vietnam - Presidential Assassination - Civil Rights Struggles - Cuban Missile Crises - so many other things to numerous to name ........ many of you likely grew up during one of these events, but like most of us choose to remember the better things

We, of my generation, are vastly out-gunned.

dont be so sure about that ..... there are those of us unhappy about this or that and arent giving up in our lifetimes or hopefully our kids

[SpaceCadet]

Originally Posted by DOF_power

>



^ A nice poem, but way way too unrealistically idealistic.
The Golden Era is a myth usually restricted to only a group of individuals not the entire society.

I hate to say it, but I agree, DOF. My family, much as I adore them, presented the image in this poem on the outside, but on reality - wow, not even close. And to think my family was the only one to be just a tad disfunctional is not too realistic, either. The people who succeed in today's world are the one's who learned from the situation in which they were raised, if indeed, that situation was less than ideal. Those who do not succeed have chosen the same path they came from instead of learning and making things better.

[Jeffrey4318]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Many here have read my rantings about character, honor, and how business ethics were addressed in the NASCAR of yesterday. To give you an example I took the liberty of cutting and pasting this from an answer Duck gave over on the NASCAR TRIVIA site. It shows to the extent people would take their beliefs and how far some would go to honor a committment.

"here's a story about Weatherly & the number 13:
Joe Weatherly was angry and adamant that September week in 1962. Bob Colvin was just as fiery and forceful.

"I won't run the race!" stormed the colorful Weatherly. "And you can't make me!"

"You will run," shot back Colvin. "And I can make you. We have a handshake deal!"

At issue was the 13th annual staging of the Southern 500 at Darlington Raceway in South Carolina, which at that time was NASCAR's supreme event. Weatherly's problem was with the No. 13. The former motorcycle racing champion, who was en route to two straight major NASCAR stock car titles in 1962 and '63, simply loathed the numeral. Colvin, the colorful president of the Darlington track, hated to give in. But he saw a way out that would appease Weatherly.

The Southern 500 of 1962 was renamed. It became "The 12th Renewal of the Southern 500." Weatherly got to race."

Contrary to what some might believe, this was NOT silly. It was just an example of how people of character and grounded beliefs handled things. Today's society might be well served to follow the example.

Thanks for the post, Ducks. I hope you don't mind my using it, en toto.

I don't understand your thinking Bob. In another thread you were scalding Brad Coleman for signing a deal to driver for HOF in cup just after he signed a deal to drive for Brewco in NWS. You kept going on about how he was going against the agreement he made with Brewco. How is this different? Weatherly was going to back out on his agreement if he didn't get his way. If anything this story just proves that the drivers were just as much prima donnas back then than they are now. Say Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson, or Tony Stewart pulled they would be beaten into the ground by the media and fans.

[DOF_power]

I would like to thank SpaceCadet and simple simon for expanding and explaining my thoughts.

Jeffrey4318, I think you're underestimating the importance of the no. 13.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey4318

I don't understand your thinking Bob. In another thread you were scalding Brad Coleman for signing a deal to driver for HOF in cup just after he signed a deal to drive for Brewco in NWS. You kept going on about how he was going against the agreement he made with Brewco. How is this different? Weatherly was going to back out on his agreement if he didn't get his way. If anything this story just proves that the drivers were just as much prima donnas back then than they are now. Say Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson, or Tony Stewart pulled they would be beaten into the ground by the media and fans.

In re-reading my post I see your point and I agree. I was wrong. Weatherly was in the wrong. The track owner made a uncalled for rhetorical change to accommodate Joe. I humbly stand corrected. When I make a mistake I try to acknowledge it.

Declining to race on superstitious reasons is obviously not the thing to do, but it doesn't meet the same parameters as the same reasons Coleman possibly reneged on BrewCo. McMurray did to Roush, Kurt Busch did to Penske and Jeffie Pooh did to Bill Davis. It's not the right thing to do but it's not the same, IMHO, as stiffing on a contract in order to financially improve oneself.

I furthermore stand solidly on my philosophy that a handshake agreement or a promise is as good as a sign contract. Situational ethics show a distinct lack of character. That being said, I know that it is not "Bob's World," and it doesn't come close to being a perfect world and others do not hold the same values as do I. I accept that but I still, and probably will forever, think it's morally wrong.

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I furthermore stand solidly on my philosophy that a handshake agreement or a promise is as good as a sign contract. Situational ethics show a distinct lack of character. That being said, I know that it is not "Bob's World," and it doesn't come close to being a perfect world and others do not hold the same values as do I. I accept that but I still, and probably will forever, think it's morally wrong.

let it be known .. "Bob's World" does not only have a population of one .. (though sometimes it may seem as though it does)

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by simple simon

let it be known .. "Bob's World" does not only have a population of one .. (though sometimes it may seem as though it does)

Agreed..........