[Bob Tanner]

I see lots of complaints here about NASCAR. (I'm probably one of the major offenders) Are they valid? Is NASCAR really going down the ol' dumper. as many os us feel it is, or is it our imagination? Let's try and reach some sort of concensus, shall we?

First, let's look at what is wrong with NASCAR. Please give this some thought and don't come out with some knee-jerk reaction. List three things you do not like about the current NASCAR. here are some options but do not limit your response to these, they are just examples:

The Playoff system (a.k.a. "Chase"
The point system
Non-consistent enforcement of rules
The lack of a published rule book
The influx of foreign drivers
The focus of competition on The Cup and not the race
The Chosen Rule (a.k.a. Top 35)
The length of the races
The obvious focus of attention on Junior and/or Jeff Gordon
and whatever else really rubs you wrong about the current NASCAR

My initial plan is to compile these, have a poll to select the top three, then submit the results, with documentation to NASCAR itself and to SIRIUS radio when it might get some air time.

I'll go first...

The Chosen Rule
The focus on The Cup and not focusing on winning the race
NASCAR's using the sponsors and TV as reasons for making decisions affecting competition

[DOF_power]

Ok let's see:

• The Playoff system (a.k.a. "Chase"

Yes.

• The point system

Yes, but it's hardly restricted to NASCAR, just that here its worse.

• Non-consistent enforcement of rules

Hell YES, but again it's hardly restricted to NASCAR. Read my signature.

• The lack of a published rule book

Didn't knew that. Can't pronounce myself.

• The influx of foreign drivers

That would eliminate the entire field. Hint these are not exactly good old boys from the Apalachians.

• The focus of competition on The Cup and not the race

Yes, but again, hardly NASCAR specific.

• The Chosen Rule (a.k.a. Top 35)

Yes.

• The length of the races

Yes.

• The obvious focus of attention on Junior and/or Jeff Gordon

Hardly NASCAR specific.
Give thanks to God (or whomever/whatever you might belive in) that you don't have a driver called Lewis Hamilton, a press as bad as the british media and a TV presenter named James Allen (against whom there's a petition/campaign called "stop the cock")

It simply can't be as bad as this:

• and whatever else really rubs you wrong about the current NASCAR
• cars: lack of (somewhat) stock cars
• tracks: nothing resembling dusty country back roads, no dirt tracks, to little road courses, too many superspeedways

So top 3:
- non-consistent enforcement of rules, bizare decisions
- tracks
- points (as a proper modification here could/would also put more focus on the race vs. collecting points for the Chase and/or Cup)

[Racer Duck]

without elaborating (too much .. most have seen my thoughts elsewhere...)

1. The Chosen - this is the #1 problem facing NA$CAR and is what has seemed to affect the fans the most .. why cannot the fastest cars race? why must fast cars go home while slow cars get into the race? this is against every foundational custom and principle in racing and is tantamount to race fixing. There is no justification for sending the fastest qualifier home because a few qualifiers were prevented from getting in their run because of weather .. especially when there is ample time before the race to finish/re-do qualifying.
2. Media coverage - when there's as much pre-race coverage (hoopla) as there is for the race and hardly any post race coverage, when the media are sticking cameras (I've grown weary of nose-hair shots of competitors) and microphones into the faces of competitors (gotta get that sensational curse word on tape!) at awkward/emotional moments because they believe they have the "right" to do so, when it's more important to get the (required) # of commercials per hour in at the cost of showing the race (and there seems to be some sort of unwritten rule NOT to switch back to the race for an important event thus terminating the comercial break), and the fixation with multiple replays of a single incident and a childlike fascination with silly computer graphics, then it's no wonder most fans are loosing interest in "watching" the race - there's just not much to watch or listen to.
3. Primary Sponsor Paranoia - within the past year we've been treated to 2 instances where a series sponsor has used NA$CAR thugs to eliminate or seriously deter their competition's sponsorship of competitors in the series. For some reason both they and NA$CAR feel this limiting of competiton is good for the sport, when in fact it's only good for the Primary Sponsor's and NA$CAR's pocketbooks. The fans don't like it, the competitors don't like it, and the other sponsors don't like it.

[BiscuitMan]

Here my thoughts on NASCAR's dilemma:

The Rule Book:

• Publish it so us “novice” race fans know what the car is going to look like when it gets to the speedway.
• Get rid of that “scope” on the front of them cars. That's silly looking.
• Use “show room” designed cars. So we can recognize that family sedan. Rather than changing the decal for the grill and painting a bow-tie above it to identify it as a Chevy.
• Tell us what the engine really looks like, not just say it’s a 358 cu. in. Chevy, Ford, Dodge, or Toyota.
• Don’t make these cars like the Race of Champions where they are all the same except for the paint job.

Things that I would like to be brought back:

• Race back to the flag after a caution. Unless the path is blocked. Use flashing RED.
• Open the pits immediately after a caution. Don't give Jeff Gordon's crew chief time to discuss how many tires to change. Make him holler: "I'm coming in. Left side tires, gas and remove that right spring rubber".
• Get rid of the “lucky dog”. Race to un-lap yourself, rather than just stay ahead of the second car a lap down.
• Finish every race under competition. No yellows.

[jks812]

1. The top 35. I would love for them to let the fastest 43 race. If Jr or Gordon or whoever don't make a race, oh well, maybe they'll run better next week.
2. The inconsistent rules. If you penalize one guy for something, penalize all of them that get caught for the same thing. Doesn't matter if it's before the race or after the race when they get caught, penalize all or none.
3. Letting the winning of the championship come above winning races. If you win races, you have better chance of being champ, then you do just being careful and points racing.
4. Having cars just move over for the leader or a chase car. If you can't pass them, just ride behind them. If you're good enough to lead the race you should be good enough to get around a lapped car.

[Joe#16]

This is my first post so let me know if it is posted correctly.

First, I’ve been following or been involved in racing since the ‘60’s, NHRA, SCCA, CART, NASCAR either as a participant or tech official or fire crew. I worked NASCAR Riverside in the ‘70’s for the Winston West Series and at a local Friday/Saturday night track.

First, the top 35. It wasn’t NASCAR or the drivers or owners that came up with this rule as I understand it. It was the sponsors when a majority of the races began being televised. Bud, Dupont, et al, said, “If I’m spending $X millions of dollars to sponsor a car then I’m going to make darn sure my car gets on TV”. Advertising. And like most of you, I’d like to see it thrown out the window and let the fastest race.

Rule books, I’d can’t speak for now but I still have my copy of my 1971 NASCAR rule book. It may not be easy for the general public to get but you can bet every owner, crew chief and driver have a copy. Although, there is always room for interpretation in any rule book.

Finally, cheating. I remember one incident when an illegal carburetor was confiscated and the owner and crew chief was fined. The crew chief said, “It cost me over $500 (1971 dollars) to have that carb built but you’ll never know how much I have made off of it.” Everybody is going to be looking for that “Competitive Edge” and it’s up to the officials to catch as much as they can. I would like to see some of the habitual “Creative” types suspended, and that would mean NO CONTACT with the team during the term of the suspension. And monetary fines will not become a deterrent until they are up in the millions of dollars with the budgets that these teams currently have. As the Senior Tech Official said, “I lay awake at night trying to figure out how they are ****ing me, but the one thing that gives me peace is knowing that they are laying awake at night trying to figure out how to **** me.”


Well, that’s more that enough for one post but I had to throw it out there.

GO #16!

[PenelopePitStop]

Man, what a can of worms!

Three ... huh? Ok ... but I bet you could have guessed!

1. The Chosen.
2. The Chase.
3. Focus on the Cup (either by the teams/drivers or the media).

You know ... as a sideline ... I have to believe that The Chosen also may have an impact on drivers. Stay in that Top-35 ... don't take any risks on the track. Perhaps there's a sub-Chase going on as well.

[Lefturn]

1. Top 35. Worst rule in sporting history.

2. NASCAR inconsistancy. From phantom cautions, to inconsistancy in enforcing rules, to poor business decisions by allowing ESPN to cover the race. They need to clean house I think.

3. The Chase. Although it was possible to clinch a title before the end of the season, having a 'Chase' was foolish. Now you have a third of the field who expect the rest of the drivers not to race them. Plus, they don't cover the race, they just keep track of the Chase drivers whether they are 1st or 41st it doesn't matter.

These are my top three pet peeves.

[SpaceCadet]

1) The first one is easy. The Chosen 35. It needs to go away.

2) Not so easy to narrow down #2 and #3. I'll go with the ridiculous influence the sponsor's are allowed to have over this sport. Which ties in to #1 and #3.

3) TV coverage is killing NASCAR. It is so frustrating to watch a race with all the crap going on that it's almost not worth it. And I'm a die hard fan so imagine what your casual fans must think! At our local track on Saturday nights a video company tapes all the races and they are broadcast over the net. (For a fee, of course.) I listen to the camera men over the scanner sometimes because they have this sixth sense on where the action is - whether it be a great pass or a wreck. Amazingly, they catch everything! Now, if some little local company can do it, I find it hard to believe that the big network's can't figure it out. Every time they break away, there's a caution. We miss the action back in the pack because they're following the leader, who is 5 car lengths out it front, going around in circles all by himself. Maybe they should have a requirement that the TV director needs to be a former race director. They have to do something about the coverage if they want fans to stick with them.

[wardfan]

1) the top 35
2) the chase
3) the fact that the sponsors control things and its not about the racing anymore

[racingwin]

If races would only start at 1pm.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

[*]Primary Sponsor Paranoia - within the past year we've been treated to 2 instances where a series sponsor has used NA$CAR thugs to eliminate or seriously deter their competition's sponsorship of competitors in the series. For some reason both they and NA$CAR feel this limiting of competiton is good for the sport, when in fact it's only good for the Primary Sponsor's and NA$CAR's pocketbooks. The fans don't like it, the competitors don't like it, and the other sponsors don't like it.[/list]

Duck, with your permission I'll put this one under the heading "making decisions affecting compewtition based on sponsor, team owner desires?

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by BiscuitMan

Here my thoughts on NASCAR's dilemma:

The Rule Book:

• Publish it so us “novice” race fans know what the car is going to look like when it gets to the speedway.
• Get rid of that “scope” on the front of them cars. That's silly looking.
• Use “show room” designed cars. So we can recognize that family sedan. Rather than changing the decal for the grill and painting a bow-tie above it to identify it as a Chevy.
• Tell us what the engine really looks like, not just say it’s a 358 cu. in. Chevy, Ford, Dodge, or Toyota.
• Don’t make these cars like the Race of Champions where they are all the same except for the paint job.

D

Biscuit, I understand the first one. With your permission I'll list the remainder under a broad heading of "Non-stock looking race car design?"

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by jks812

1. The top 35. I would love for them to let the fastest 43 race. If Jr or Gordon or whoever don't make a race, oh well, maybe they'll run better next week.
2. The inconsistent rules. If you penalize one guy for something, penalize all of them that get caught for the same thing. Doesn't matter if it's before the race or after the race when they get caught, penalize all or none.
3. Letting the winning of the championship come above winning races. If you win races, you have better chance of being champ, then you do just being careful and points racing.
4. Having cars just move over for the leader or a chase car. If you can't pass them, just ride behind them. If you're good enough to lead the race you should be good enough to get around a lapped car.

I got the top three. However, your fourth brings up another problem many might have; "Team-like racing."

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Joe#16

[Finally, cheating. I remember one incident when an illegal carburetor was confiscated and the owner and crew chief was fined. The crew chief said, “It cost me over $500 (1971 dollars) to have that carb built but you’ll never know how much I have made off of it.” Everybody is going to be looking for that “Competitive Edge” and it’s up to the officials to catch as much as they can. I would like to see some of the habitual “Creative” types suspended, and that would mean NO CONTACT with the team during the term of the suspension. And monetary fines will not become a deterrent until they are up in the millions of dollars with the budgets that these teams currently have. As the Senior Tech Official said, “I lay awake at night trying to figure out how they are ****ing me, but the one thing that gives me peace is knowing that they are laying awake at night trying to figure out how to **** me.”[/size]
]

I got the first two. With your permission I'll put #3 under the heading on inconsistent rule enforcement. I do this in the face of NASCAR's hiostory of addressing different cases of cheating in different way, apparently depending on who is caught, whose team was caught, etc., etc.