[PettyBlue]

They throw beer cans not stones over here,don't make it right,correct?

[DOF_power]

>



^ Well you see when a series is big, it means it has all sorts of fans.
And when the governing body and/or stewarts think a particular (dominant) group/set of groups might not be pleased, they make some stupid biased/populist decisions witch overall makes things worse.

And ofcourse, except for the Sunday race, it's a big buisness the rest of the time.
Now at team like McLaren will have to explains to its sponsors/partners/fans (merchendise buying) how it lost something that could have been easily theirs.

[DOF_power]

On the other hand this 3 way battle (4 way for most of the season) hasn't happened since in 1986.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by PettyBlue

They throw beer cans not stones over here,don't make it right,correct?

At least it's only beer cans, Petty. NASCAR could have the reputation that soccer (futball) has, with its "hooligans." I might have the team wrong (and DOF or some soccer fan feel free to correct me) but I believe that within the past decade the Leeds fans started a post game riot which ended with brawls in the stands and on the field, part of the stands being torn down and I think there might have been a fatality or two, but I'm not sure.
NASCAR "fans" (term used loosely) throwing a few beer cans might be despicable, but it pales by European soccer standards.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

At least it's only beer cans, Petty. NASCAR could have the reputation that soccer (futball) has, with its "hooligans." I might have the team wrong (and DOF or some soccer fan feel free to correct me) but I believe that within the past decade the Leeds fans started a post game riot which ended with brawls in the stands and on the field, part of the stands being torn down and I think there might have been a fatality or two, but I'm not sure.
NASCAR "fans" (term used loosely) throwing a few beer cans might be despicable, but it pales by European soccer standards.

I also won't try to justify what the NASCAR fans do but look at the super bowl and the world series results. Cars get tipped over, set on fire and then they get bad !!!

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I also won't try to justify what the NASCAR fans do but look at the super bowl and the world series results. Cars get tipped over, set on fire and then they get bad !!!

...and they do that when their team wins??!!

The people who do what you describe after Super Bowl, World Series, aren't fans, by any stretch of the imagination; they're just plain felonious vandals.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

...and they do that when their team wins??!!

The people who do what you describe after Super Bowl, World Series, aren't fans, by any stretch of the imagination; they're just plain felonious vandals.

Dare I say "Rick" here or will that push your hot button again ???

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Dare I say "Rick" here or will that push your hot button again ???

He may be a convicted felon with the business and moral ethics of a brothel madame, but to my knowledge he's never vandalized anything. Unless, of course, you count what he and Bill France Jr. did to NASCAR back in 1987 when they conspired to break the Two Team per Owner Rule? That did grievous damage which we are still suffering from.

In another totally different vein... think NA$CAR is FUBAR? Look at F1! They declared a season champion today Roikkenon (sp?) beat Hamilton by one point and it's being challenged because the losing teams claim that the winning team had fuel which was too cold. Apparently there is an F1 rule which mandates fuel can only be so cold.

DOF is aware of the rule I'm sure and I hope that he will clarify this for us. But between the spying, the $100 million fine, the team orders and now this, NASCAR looks kind of "simple."

[DOF_power]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

At least it's only beer cans, Petty. NASCAR could have the reputation that soccer (futball) has, with its "hooligans." I might have the team wrong (and DOF or some soccer fan feel free to correct me) but I believe that within the past decade the Leeds fans started a post game riot which ended with brawls in the stands and on the field, part of the stands being torn down and I think there might have been a fatality or two, but I'm not sure.
NASCAR "fans" (term used loosely) throwing a few beer cans might be despicable, but it pales by European soccer standards.

I don't know about Leeds, but I know last year both in Europe and Latin Americas there incidents some witch ended in fatalities.
Not all football fans are "hooligans", far from it, but these to my knowledge I think are the worst (I could be wrong tough).

When I was talking about throwing stones, I was talking metaphorically, BTW.

[DOF_power]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

He may be a convicted felon with the business and moral ethics of a brothel madame, but to my knowledge he's never vandalized anything. Unless, of course, you count what he and Bill France Jr. did to NASCAR back in 1987 when they conspired to break the Two Team per Owner Rule? That did grievous damage which we are still suffering from.

In another totally different vein... think NA$CAR is FUBAR? Look at F1! They declared a season champion today Roikkenon (sp?) beat Hamilton by one point and it's being challenged because the losing teams claim that the winning team had fuel which was too cold. Apparently there is an F1 rule which mandates fuel can only be so cold.

DOF is aware of the rule I'm sure and I hope that he will clarify this for us. But between the spying, the $100 million fine, the team orders and now this, NASCAR looks kind of "simple."

Yep they're appealing due to the fuel situation.

It has emerged from Interlagos that investigations are currently taking place regarding the BMW Sauber and Williams teams, after fuel samples from the cars failed post-race scrutineering checks.

And if the FIA's International Court of Appeal overturns the stewards' decision and, more crucially, disqualifies the Williams and BMW Sauber drivers, then McLaren's Lewis Hamilton will be elevated from seventh to fourth - giving him enough points to beat Raikkonen and become the world championship.

So it's not over yet, and the title might just be decided in court.

Honestly this is a season to see it all.

[DOF_power]

A little clarification on the fuel rules.

From : The FIA Formula One Technical Delegate
To : The Stewards of the Meeting
TECHNICAL DELEGATE S REPORT
After the race:
The temperature of the fuel going into the car during the race refuelling has been checked for car numbers 01,
02, 05, 06, 09, 10, 16 and 17.
The temperature of the fuel going into the car numbers 01, 02, 05 and 06 was within the 10 degrees below the
ambient temperature.
The temperature of the fuel going into the car numbers 09, 10, 16 and 17 was more than 10 degrees below the
ambient temperature:

Car 09, driver Nick Heidfeld:
1st pit-stop at 14:33 fuel temperature: 24 ºC ambient temperature: 37 ºC
2nd pit-stop at 15:06 fuel temperature: 25 ºC ambient temperature: 37 ºC

Car 10, driver Robert Kubica:
1st pit-stop at 14:26 fuel temperature: 23 ºC ambient temperature: 37 ºC
2nd pit-stop at 14:49 fuel temperature: 24 ºC ambient temperature: 37 ºC
3rd pit-stop at 15:15 fuel temperature: 24 ºC ambient temperature: 37 ºC

Car 16, driver Nico Rosberg:
1st pit-stop at 14:31 fuel temperature: 24 ºC ambient temperature: 37 ºC
2nd pit-stop at 15:10 fuel temperature: 25 ºC ambient temperature: 37 ºC

Car 17, driver Kazuki Nakajima:
1st pit-stop at 14:41 fuel temperature: 25 ºC ambient temperature: 37 ºC
2nd pit-stop at 15:10 fuel temperature: 26 ºC ambient temperature: 36 ºC

I am referring this matter to the stewards for their consideration.
Jo Bauer
FIA Formula One Technical Delegate
Time : 17.30
Date : 21 October 2007
Document : 37

Stewards final Investigation Report:-
CODE
http://www.fia.com/resources/documen...illiams_07.pdf


Article 6.5.5, FIA Formula 1 technical regulations:

[DOF_power]

If McLaren appeals then Ferrari might/will appeal to remove completly the drivers points as they did with the constructor championship points.

So it could get even more ugly.

[DOF_power]

got this from a friend of mine from another forum

http://www.blick.ch/sport/formel1/we...ort-mass-74178

Am Ende war die ganze Angelegenheit ein Sturm im Wasserglas, denn das Benzin muss gar nicht in den Tankanlagen gemessen werden, wo der Sprit logischerweise um einige Grade kälter ist.

Halten Sie sich fest: Die FIA müsste – so das Reglement – den Sprit am Auto messen! Dass heisst am Einfüllstutzen. Doch dort hat es gar keine Sensoren…

Unglaublich, da haben die FIA-Kontrolleure also das ganze Jahr am falschen Ort gemessen!

Und nach dem Rapport des Technischen Delegierten Jo Bauer wiesen die drei FIA-Rennkommissäre unter dem Vorsitz des oft umstrittenen Briten Tony Scott Andrews in ihrer Urteilsbegründung darauf hin, dass «genügend Zweifel über einen Regelverstoss bestehen!»

Und weiter: «Die Sache wird dadurch kompliziert, dass zwischen den von der Formel 1 (FOM) und Meteo France gemessenen Aussentemperaturen eine beträchtliche Diskrepanz besteht.» BLICK sagt welche: Die Formel-1-Messung zeigte 37 Grad, die von Meteo France 33 Grad an…
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not translating it verbatim, just repeating the key points:
- the rules say that the temperature has to be measured at the nozzle, but there are no sensors
- the temps were measured at the tank, but that is always chilled
- the FIA basically measured the temps at the wrong place all year long
- FOM measured ambient temperature of 37 degrees, whereas Meteo France indicated 33 degrees

Bottom line: Too many inconsistencies to make a verdict. McLaren's appeal is hopeless.

Kimi Raikkonen is World Champion, he won more races and was more consistent (he had technical problems only) and didn't made (driver) mistakes like Hamilton (China, Brazil) and Alonso (Canada, Japan).