[McMurray26]

I have listened to a ton of NASCAR radio on Sirius lately and the open wheel driver influx has been a hot topic of discussion. A lot of the hosts say the driver has a lot of talent and they don't mind them coming to the NASCAR but the problem they have is that they are taking seats away from guys who had a dream of driving stock cars at the highest level and a seat they could occupy is being taken away by championship drivers from other series. I mean seriously does Franchitti getting a cup ride mean that Joey Lagano is not going to be in the cup series soon. Well my problem is this. Yeah it does limit the rides available to younger drivers who have not got a shot yet. But who is it that is taken their rides is it the open wheel guys who have won in other series or is it guys like Kenny Wallace, Joe Nemechek, Sterling Marlin, Mike Wallace, Dale Jarrett, or John Andretti. Now I like a lot of those guys and I have no porblem with them, but my point is they have either used their shots or they are in major decline and no longer belong at the highest level. So I think they are the ones who should be kept out not people who have won at the highest level of other forms of racing. I mean if they don't work out they will be not given chance after chance like some of the others. I also find it hillarious that when people complain about these open wheel drivers nobody really complains about aj almendinger or sam hornish. There must be something special about them.

[jks812]

It's not that I have a problem with them coming to Nascar. I have a problem with how they come to the Cup series. They don't move a Busch driver up cause they say he needs more experience in the cars. Then they bring an open wheel driver who hasn't had any experience in these cars and put them in a cup car. I don't care who you are and what series you raced in or how good you were in that series, you should have to run at least 1 year ARCA, then 1 year Busch and then maybe go to Cup.
It's not just the open wheel guys I think should have to do that, it's all of them.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by jks812

It's not that I have a problem with them coming to Nascar. I have a problem with how they come to the Cup series. They don't move a Busch driver up cause they say he needs more experience in the cars. Then they bring an open wheel driver who hasn't had any experience in these cars and put them in a cup car. I don't care who you are and what series you raced in or how good you were in that series, you should have to run at least 1 year ARCA, then 1 year Busch and then maybe go to Cup.
It's not just the open wheel guys I think should have to do that, it's all of them.

That's it in a nutshell!








http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb098&pp=ZN

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by jks812

It's not that I have a problem with them coming to Nascar. I have a problem with how they come to the Cup series. They don't move a Busch driver up cause they say he needs more experience in the cars. Then they bring an open wheel driver who hasn't had any experience in these cars and put them in a cup car. I don't care who you are and what series you raced in or how good you were in that series, you should have to run at least 1 year ARCA, then 1 year Busch and then maybe go to Cup.
It's not just the open wheel guys I think should have to do that, it's all of them.

Agreed .

[Racer Duck]

but it's OK for, say, Jeff Gordon to step right into an IRL, Champ or F1 car

[McMurray26]

yeah no doubt you guys would think that it would be ridiculous for gordo or stewart to have to go to the lesser series of other forms of racing some people need to get over themselves...

[jks812]

Originally Posted by McMurray26

yeah no doubt you guys would think that it would be ridiculous for gordo or stewart to have to go to the lesser series of other forms of racing some people need to get over themselves...

For one thing, maybe you should get over it and check your info. Gordon ran in Busch 2 years before going to cup and Tony ran Busch for about 3 years before going to cup.

[PettyBlue]

Funny that I never heard this type of debate in 1979.Guy that never raced any kind of car gets in a ARCA car and wins, only one he entered .Steps right into cup cars and first race made on speed at Dega finished 9th.Name-Kyle Petty.No one told him to come up via the lower ranks.Wonder why?lol.

[3fanforever]

Originally Posted by PettyBlue

Funny that I never heard this type of debate in 1979.Guy that never raced any kind of car gets in a ARCA car and wins, only one he entered .Steps right into cup cars and first race made on speed at Dega finished 9th.Name-Kyle Petty.No one told him to come up via the lower ranks.Wonder why?lol.

Maybe because he grew up in stock cars with his dad. He knew all about them before he ever got in one, and he knew how to race them.
And he was Richard Petty's son.

[Racer Duck]

the point is not what Gordo or Smoke did in their quest to enter Cup racing .. the point is the elitest attitude NASCAR people have developed about Cup.

there used to be a series called IROC which invited drivers from all different persuasions to compete in what was supposed to be an unfamiliar, but equal format. unfortunately, the cars were all fendered and the races were on NASCAR's oval tracks, usually with moderate to high banking. Naturally, the NASCAR guys won most of the races. the format was not unfamiliar nor equal, just convenient to run in conjunction with a NASCAR event. however, there were a few open wheeled drivers who whipped the NASCAR guys butts.

back to the point: I believe other elite series ususally require a driver's test and some require the driver compete in a lesser race to "prove" their ability to compete (Milka Duno is a recent example in IRL .. had to take the driver's test and compete at Kansas before being allowed into the Indy 500) - I'm not familiar with F1, so can't speak to it (DOF, a little help please.) Will they require Jeff Gordon to compete in a lesser race before he competes in the Indy 500? I don't know...but probably not.

NASCAR is similar to the other series in that the driver has to pass a driver's test. but none that I know of require years of preliminary competition in "a lesser series". is it prudent, probably. but it's not required.

as I remember, and I do remember, A.J. Foyt, Johnny Rutherford, brothers Gary & Tony Bettenhausen, Jr., Wally Dallenbach and his son, Wally Jr., Mark Donohue, Elliott Forbes-Robinson, Gordon Johncock, Roger McCluskey, Dan Gurney, Mario Andretti and the Unser gang (Al, Bobby & Al jr.) all came from other (mostly open-wheel) venues, having excelled in them BEFORE they tried NASCAR, and never ran in a "preliminary" series prior to their first Cup start. for many of them, their first NASCAR race was at Daytona.

so, knock off the elitest attitude and admit that there are drivers in other series that are equal to or better than those competing in NASCAR. They don't need to go to kindergarden to "relearn" how to drive a car .. many of them have driven more types of cars on more types of tracks than most NASCAR drivers and have done well. afford them the respect they have earned as the NASCAR drivers are accorded respect in other series.

[PettyBlue]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

the point is not what Gordo or Smoke did in their quest to enter Cup racing .. the point is the elitest attitude NASCAR people have developed about Cup.

there used to be a series called IROC which invited drivers from all different persuasions to compete in what was supposed to be an unfamiliar, but equal format. unfortunately, the cars were all fendered and the races were on NASCAR's oval tracks, usually with moderate to high banking. Naturally, the NASCAR guys won most of the races. the format was not unfamiliar nor equal, just convenient to run in conjunction with a NASCAR event. however, there were a few open wheeled drivers who whipped the NASCAR guys butts.

back to the point: I believe other elite series ususally require a driver's test and some require the driver compete in a lesser race to "prove" their ability to compete (Milka Duno is a recent example in IRL .. had to take the driver's test and compete at Kansas before being allowed into the Indy 500) - I'm not familiar with F1, so can't speak to it (DOF, a little help please.) Will they require Jeff Gordon to compete in a lesser race before he competes in the Indy 500? I don't know...but probably not.

NASCAR is similar to the other series in that the driver has to pass a driver's test. but none that I know of require years of preliminary competition in "a lesser series". is it prudent, probably. but it's not required.

as I remember, and I do remember, A.J. Foyt, Johnny Rutherford, brothers Gary & Tony Bettenhausen, Jr., Wally Dallenbach and his son, Wally Jr., Mark Donohue, Elliott Forbes-Robinson, Gordon Johncock, Roger McCluskey, Dan Gurney, Mario Andretti and the Unser gang (Al, Bobby & Al jr.) all came from other (mostly open-wheel) venues, having excelled in them BEFORE they tried NASCAR, and never ran in a "preliminary" series prior to their first Cup start. for many of them, their first NASCAR race was at Daytona.

so, knock off the elitest attitude and admit that there are drivers in other series that are equal to or better than those competing in NASCAR. They don't need to go to kindergarden to "relearn" how to drive a car .. many of them have driven more types of cars on more types of tracks than most NASCAR drivers and have done well. afford them the respect they have earned as the NASCAR drivers are accorded respect in other series.

Well put RD.

[jks812]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

the point is not what Gordo or Smoke did in their quest to enter Cup racing .. the point is the elitest attitude NASCAR people have developed about Cup.

there used to be a series called IROC which invited drivers from all different persuasions to compete in what was supposed to be an unfamiliar, but equal format. unfortunately, the cars were all fendered and the races were on NASCAR's oval tracks, usually with moderate to high banking. Naturally, the NASCAR guys won most of the races. the format was not unfamiliar nor equal, just convenient to run in conjunction with a NASCAR event. however, there were a few open wheeled drivers who whipped the NASCAR guys butts.

back to the point: I believe other elite series ususally require a driver's test and some require the driver compete in a lesser race to "prove" their ability to compete (Milka Duno is a recent example in IRL .. had to take the driver's test and compete at Kansas before being allowed into the Indy 500) - I'm not familiar with F1, so can't speak to it (DOF, a little help please.) Will they require Jeff Gordon to compete in a lesser race before he competes in the Indy 500? I don't know...but probably not.

NASCAR is similar to the other series in that the driver has to pass a driver's test. but none that I know of require years of preliminary competition in "a lesser series". is it prudent, probably. but it's not required.

as I remember, and I do remember, A.J. Foyt, Johnny Rutherford, brothers Gary & Tony Bettenhausen, Jr., Wally Dallenbach and his son, Wally Jr., Mark Donohue, Elliott Forbes-Robinson, Gordon Johncock, Roger McCluskey, Dan Gurney, Mario Andretti and the Unser gang (Al, Bobby & Al jr.) all came from other (mostly open-wheel) venues, having excelled in them BEFORE they tried NASCAR, and never ran in a "preliminary" series prior to their first Cup start. for many of them, their first NASCAR race was at Daytona.

so, knock off the elitest attitude and admit that there are drivers in other series that are equal to or better than those competing in NASCAR. They don't need to go to kindergarden to "relearn" how to drive a car .. many of them have driven more types of cars on more types of tracks than most NASCAR drivers and have done well. afford them the respect they have earned as the NASCAR drivers are accorded respect in other series.

I misread the statement and didn't see the part about it being in other series.
Do I think if Gordon or Stewart was to go to another series that they should start in the lesser one before going to the top one? Yes I do. If it's something they've never driven before, I think they should start at the lesser one, get experience with that car and then move up. Just because Gordon is a great cup driver don't mean he can go to, say, NHRA and run just as good. And just because he's a 4 time Nascar champ don't mean he's qualified to run NHRA.
My opinion has nothing to do with respect or disrespect. I respect all the guys that get out there and do any kind of racing for a living. But it doesn't mean I should think when you go from one series to another that you are qualified to do so and automatically know how to do it.
Which is why I said I don't care who they or how good they are in their series, change to another series, should start at bottom and work their way up.
Now about the IROC. I always thought if they were gonna have all types of drivers in it, they should have a race with each of the type of cars and tracks involved in it. That way Nascar drivers wouldn't have an advantage.

[DOF_power]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

the point is not what Gordo or Smoke did in their quest to enter Cup racing .. the point is the elitest attitude NASCAR people have developed about Cup.

there used to be a series called IROC which invited drivers from all different persuasions to compete in what was supposed to be an unfamiliar, but equal format. unfortunately, the cars were all fendered and the races were on NASCAR's oval tracks, usually with moderate to high banking. Naturally, the NASCAR guys won most of the races. the format was not unfamiliar nor equal, just convenient to run in conjunction with a NASCAR event. however, there were a few open wheeled drivers who whipped the NASCAR guys butts.

back to the point: I believe other elite series ususally require a driver's test and some require the driver compete in a lesser race to "prove" their ability to compete (Milka Duno is a recent example in IRL .. had to take the driver's test and compete at Kansas before being allowed into the Indy 500) - I'm not familiar with F1, so can't speak to it (DOF, a little help please.) Will they require Jeff Gordon to compete in a lesser race before he competes in the Indy 500? I don't know...but probably not.

NASCAR is similar to the other series in that the driver has to pass a driver's test. but none that I know of require years of preliminary competition in "a lesser series". is it prudent, probably. but it's not required.

as I remember, and I do remember, A.J. Foyt, Johnny Rutherford, brothers Gary & Tony Bettenhausen, Jr., Wally Dallenbach and his son, Wally Jr., Mark Donohue, Elliott Forbes-Robinson, Gordon Johncock, Roger McCluskey, Dan Gurney, Mario Andretti and the Unser gang (Al, Bobby & Al jr.) all came from other (mostly open-wheel) venues, having excelled in them BEFORE they tried NASCAR, and never ran in a "preliminary" series prior to their first Cup start. for many of them, their first NASCAR race was at Daytona.

so, knock off the elitest attitude and admit that there are drivers in other series that are equal to or better than those competing in NASCAR. They don't need to go to kindergarden to "relearn" how to drive a car .. many of them have driven more types of cars on more types of tracks than most NASCAR drivers and have done well. afford them the respect they have earned as the NASCAR drivers are accorded respect in other series.

Well yes I agree that there's this elitist attitude, and it's not only found in NASCAR.

And yes there are steps for F1, for F1 it starts with karting to F3/F-BMW/
F-Renault and the final step before F1 is GP2 (USAC/CART-Indycar/Formula 5000 were the final step(s) before).

Villeneuve, when in F1, himself criticized fin Kimi Raikkonen for missing/skipping steps in coming to F1, and now is in the same position.
Oh the irony.

[PaulPosition]

Originally Posted by DOF_power

Well yes I agree that there's this elitist attitude, and it's not only found in NASCAR.

And yes there are steps for F1, for F1 it starts with karting to F3/F-BMW/
F-Renault and the final step before F1 is GP2 (USAC/CART-Indycar/Formula 5000 were the final step(s) before).

Villeneuve, when in F1, himself criticized fin Kimi Raikkonen for missing/skipping steps in coming to F1, and now is in the same position.
Oh the irony.

Well, if you can't see any difference between a 17 years old karting champion and a Indy/500/F1 champion that has 15+ years of experience...

[McMurray26]

Originally Posted by jks812

For one thing, maybe you should get over it and check your info. Gordon ran in Busch 2 years before going to cup and Tony ran Busch for about 3 years before going to cup.

i am aware what gordon and stewart did...

i said if they went to another form of racing...

like if they went to f1 or irl

but hey i guess you got me