[Nevadastars]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

And, to make the whole thing even more of a cluster, NA$CAR, in its infinate wisdom, makes the darn race an impound race!? They do this knowing ful well that every car out of The Chosen will, in all proability, run an engine which is so tuned for maximum performance that it'll blow within the first 100 laps of the actual race?

Bob, didn't they basically outlaw "qualifying engines" a few years ago to keep costs down? I thought they had to race the engine they qualify with.

[jks812]

I think it sucks that they can qualify in the top 10 and still not get to race. I wish they would go fastest 43 races. I'd have no problem not seeing Jr, Gordon or some of those guys race. I wish they would even cut it down to the top 20 instead of the top 35. I know they're gonna give guranteed spots, but 20 should be enough.
On a side note, I am very happy Mikey got the pole.

[Racer Duck]

this idea is an attempt to eliminate the Chosen, insure the fastest cars race, and give NA$CAR a screwy, but fair, way to manipulate the field.

why not let everyone who runs a minimum percentage of the pole speed be in the race and use last practice speeds as qualifying speeds (gives everyone more than 2 laps to post a good enough time )

result: the field is limited to only those who can show reasonable speed (say, 95% of pole speed) without limiting the field size and it overrides/eliminates the Chosen and it allows NA$CAR to "fiddle with" the % to manage field size (imagine a 50 car field at Martinsville!!!).

there would still be "go or go homers", but they would be guaranteed to be the slowest... why would any sponsor be happy with a slow car anyway

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Nevadastars

Bob, didn't they basically outlaw "qualifying engines" a few years ago to keep costs down? I thought they had to race the engine they qualify with.

Yep. But, just to make the race at Talladega, the Non Chosen have to push their engines to the limit, for qualifying. Plus NASCAR mandated a rear gear which actually ups the RPM's!?

If this hadn't have been an impound race, the Non Chosen could have, at least changed engines and gone to the rear of the starting field.

This entire Chosen 35 concept is just plain W-R-O-N-G, on so many levels! Talk about NA$CAR infamous "Detrimental to stock car racing" Rule!? I'd say The Chosen Rule meets every requirement!

(Yeah, this is a real "Hot Button" issue with me...)

[oncea3fan]

if the chase stays (and you know it will) run the regular season to to the chase with the fastest 43, at the chase cut off, give the chasers and garenteed starting stop (thats what they earned by running well enough all season)then the remainer of the field is set by the fastest 31 not in the chase. this would give nascar it's chase star protection and atleast make it fair for the rest of the field(compareing non-chasers to non-chasers)

[NASCAR Gnome]

I'm not one to kavech about much but reading all these theories is giving me a headache!!!

About the top-35... Talladega is what, the 30th race of the season? So, coming into this week the current top-35 teams have been battling it out all these weeks, right? I mean it's not like NASCAR or some "racing genie" waved a magic wand and created the top-35 just this week so Scott Riggs can fail to make the race, right? Each and every team in the top-35 EARNED the RIGHT to be there, correct? So, as a result of earning the right to be there, these teams get privileges that the teams outside the top-35 don't get including the fact that they are guaranteed a starting grid spot weekly regardless of where they qualify!

Didn't a UNICEF-sponsored Toyota car qualify for the race? Who drove that car? A Canadian who NEVER qualified for, or drove in, a COT race before in his life! He qualified on speed! So, is that FAIR to Riggs, Allmendinger or Boris Said? All those guys had their shots to make the field and they knew what was at stake, so to come out and say it's unfair, well, is wrong in my book!

Here's my only suggestion: do away with impound races. If everyone was allowed to qualify in qualifying trim then permitted to change the cars to race trim, perhaps we'd see a completely different situation with the go-or-go-homers. Those inside the top-35 will qualify very poorly, as evidenced by Jeff Gordon and company coming to the front from way back, because they are in race trim BECAUSE it's an impound race! Do away with the impound and you'll see where the go-or-go-home people end up, I think!

[LSC9901]

I believe I understand your point but ...... what if they attempt to qualify in qualifying trim and don't make it in on speed. Why is it fair for (I'll use Waltrip in this example) to possibly qualify faster than the top 35 but still get sent home ? What makes it fair for him to have to go home but not (insert a top 35 driver here) ? Just because the top 35 driver has the proven ability, it shouldn't give him an automatic entry into the race. I understand that 35th is an imaginary line that is drawn but 36th could be 1 point out but qualify 10 MPH's faster than 35th.

Sorry but from my view it is a tainted process.

[NASCAR Gnome]

I agree LSC9901, the process is far from perfect especially when it solely based on the "magic" cutoff number of 43! (Btw, 35 of 43 is approximately 80%)

A while back in this very forum, I asked how come stock car races are limited to a field of 43 cars? Why can't they add more to this number, thus affording others chances to make the race? The answer that I found out was somewhat vague (because no one knew for sure) but sensible and that the number 43 has to do with the number of pit stalls a given race track can accommodate for any one race! So, it turns out that physical layout, and not opinion, is why this magic number of 43 cars is such. You see, this whole argument of who races and who doesn't falls SQUARELY on the 43 entries allowed per race. If, for example, they allowed 46 cars this past weekend, then Riggs, Said and Allmendinger would have all made the show and there would be no debate here. But the fact is, they didn't and 46 is not the number and sadly, there appears to be no concrete alternative to what NASCAR has in-place as a system for determining who races and who doesn't outside the magic 35 spots!

Think back to the second Daytona race this year. Boris Said blew the field away with his qualifying run and was firmly entrenched in the race until the rains came! Not only did Boris NOT sit on the pole for Daytona, he DIDN'T EVEN MAKE THE RACE because of the rain!!! Unfair??? You bet it is! However reality dictates that until a new system is devised to replace the current one, things like Riggs and Said driving their arses off only to end up as spectators come raceday will continue to happen. It's absolutely sad but unfortunately that is the reality we have to live with.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by NASCAR Gnome

I agree LSC9901, the process is far from perfect especially when it solely based on the "magic" cutoff number of 43! (Btw, 35 of 43 is approximately 80%)

A while back in this very forum, I asked how come stock car races are limited to a field of 43 cars? Why can't they add more to this number, thus affording others chances to make the race? The answer that I found out was somewhat vague (because no one knew for sure) but sensible and that the number 43 has to do with the number of pit stalls a given race track can accommodate for any one race! So, it turns out that physical layout, and not opinion, is why this magic number of 43 cars is such. You see, this whole argument of who races and who doesn't falls SQUARELY on the 43 entries allowed per race. If, for example, they allowed 46 cars this past weekend, then Riggs, Said and Allmendinger would have all made the show and there would be no debate here. But the fact is, they didn't and 46 is not the number and sadly, there appears to be no concrete alternative to what NASCAR has in-place as a system for determining who races and who doesn't outside the magic 35 spots!

Think back to the second Daytona race this year. Boris Said blew the field away with his qualifying run and was firmly entrenched in the race until the rains came! Not only did Boris NOT sit on the pole for Daytona, he DIDN'T EVEN MAKE THE RACE because of the rain!!! Unfair??? You bet it is! However reality dictates that until a new system is devised to replace the current one, things like Riggs and Said driving their arses off only to end up as spectators come raceday will continue to happen. It's absolutely sad but unfortunately that is the reality we have to live with.

it's simple .. just delete the rules put in place for the Chosen, i.e., revert to the system in place BEFORE the Chosen was instituted.

too bad so many people think this Chosen thing has always been there when in reality it's only been around a very short time in the history of NASCAR .. but almost forever in the history of NA$CAR!

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Let's look at it from the other side of the fence. I'm not P.O.' d about it. If he raced his way in ... then fine. Now if you're asking do I like him ..... I think we've been down this road before. I'd be happy to re-state my feelings/opinions if you have forgotten them.

Of course not, you big silly! I know you "dislike" him. But can you give him just a bit of credit for getting the Pole?

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Of course not, you big silly! I know you "dislike" him. But can you give him just a bit of credit for getting the Pole?

I guess I can take a moment to qualify my reasons for disliking him. Most of it revolves around his mouth. I know that all the drivers are sponsor whores and I accept that. Mikey is more vocal about it and almost makes a joke of it. He often speaks little of what happened during the race but tends to thank the sponsors forever. Again I know they all do it but he honestly sickens me the way he does it. Secondly, and probably more important, he just isn't that good of a driver and from my view the numbers back it up. His greatest success came with DEI. Before and after DEI he has been nothing. He then became an owner/driver which seldom if ever works .... and he is proving that once again.

As for getting the pole, CONGRATULATIONS. After a less than dismal year a pole must give more gratification than a championship ... but wait ... he's never had one of those.

[Nevadastars]

Steve, you forgot to mention even at DEI, he was only good at plate tracks. He sucked everywhere else. I'm with you on Mikey, his mouth makes me want to every time it opens..............which is ALL the time. He flat drives me insane commentating the truck races.
I'm at a loss as to why the media is in bed with him or how Dave Despain tolerates him on Inside Nextel Cup.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by NASCAR Gnome

I'm not one to kavech about much but reading all these theories is giving me a headache!!!

About the top-35... Talladega is what, the 30th race of the season? So, coming into this week the current top-35 teams have been battling it out all these weeks, right? I mean it's not like NASCAR or some "racing genie" waved a magic wand and created the top-35 just this week so Scott Riggs can fail to make the race, right? Each and every team in the top-35 EARNED the RIGHT to be there, correct? So, as a result of earning the right to be there, these teams get privileges that the teams outside the top-35 don't get including the fact that they are guaranteed a starting grid spot weekly regardless of where they qualify!

Gnome, I'm going to respectfully disagree with your statement that the The Chosen "EARNED the right to be guaranteed a starting spot.

As long as auto racing has been around, as far as I know each race was a separate entity and the only thing that carried over race-to-race was the points earned toward a season championship. NASCAR started giving perks for point standings and previous championships back in the 70's-80's. For example, now the higher you are in points the better parking position your hauler gets in the pit area.

IMNSVHO, what makes this Chosen 35 Rule so unfair and blatantly wrong is that it sets up a "caste system" within the competitors beyond the already megateam advantage. It promotes a system where, though every team and drivers goal should be the same, to win the race, only one class of people concern themselves solely with this (The Chosen). The Go-or-Go Homer's (The Non-Chosen) primarily worry about just making the race.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm NOT suggesting some communistic bull crap which dictates everyone should be exactly equal. It's the American way for one to become better and succeed, then letting everyone else use their ingenuity to catch up and surpass the leader.

What I want to see is a more or less level playing field where everyone has a chance to succeed in every race. The current Chosen 35 caste system promotes just the opposite, in my view anyway.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Gnome, I'm going to respectfully disagree with your statement that the The Chosen "EARNED the right to be guaranteed a starting spot.

As long as auto racing has been around, as far as I know each race was a separate entity and the only thing that carried over race-to-race was the points earned toward a season championship. NASCAR started giving perks for point standings and previous championships back in the 70's-80's. For example, now the higher you are in points the better parking position your hauler gets in the pit area.

IMNSVHO, what makes this Chosen 35 Rule so unfair and blatantly wrong is that it sets up a "caste system" within the competitors beyond the already megateam advantage. It promotes a system where, though every team and drivers goal should be the same, to win the race, only one class of people concern themselves solely with this (The Chosen). The Go-or-Go Homer's (The Non-Chosen) primarily worry about just making the race.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm NOT suggesting some communistic bull crap which dictates everyone should be exactly equal. It's the American way for one to become better and succeed, then letting everyone else use their ingenuity to catch up and surpass the leader.

What I want to see is a more or less level playing field where everyone has a chance to succeed in every race. The current Chosen 35 caste system promotes just the opposite, in my view anyway.

As always, well put.