[vincesanity82]

If Ricky Rudd were in the title chase, there might be a bigger question - why does NASCAR still have two championships, one for drivers and one for teams, instead of just one championship, like other major sports? If there were only a team championship, owner Robert Yates could put a substitute driver in Rudd's car and the team would still gain points, just like an NFL team changing its quarterbacks. But NASCAR has steadfastly refused to consider such a change, despite the fact that the rules force a driver, if he is to gain points, to start the race at the wheel, no matter how badly injured. -- Winston-Salem Journal

Winston-Salem Journal | If Rudd were in Chase, he'd have a problem

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by vincesanity82

why does NASCAR still have two championships, one for drivers and one for teams, instead of just one championship

HUH? One championship for the driver and one for the teams? I'm lost. There is just one championship ... last time I checked, anyway.

This article is a moot point. Rudd's not in The Chase.

[jks812]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

HUH? One championship for the driver and one for the teams? I'm lost. There is just one championship ... last time I checked, anyway.

This article is a moot point. Rudd's not in The Chase.

There is a driver's championship and then a owner's championship, so there are 2 championship's. But you have a point, doesn't matter cause Rudd's not in the chase. But what if one of the chase driver's got hurt and had to sit out a race? I don't think a replacement driver should get to race and the hurt driver get the points.

[clutch]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

HUH? One championship for the driver and one for the teams? I'm lost. There is just one championship ... last time I checked, anyway.

This article is a moot point. Rudd's not in The Chase.

Not moot at all, in fact an interesting thread to hear opinions about I'd say

[Phils20]

Not really a moot point at all. And we could actually have separate titles in the Busch series! The 29 team is only 40 points or so behind Edwards!

As far as allowing sub drivers, nope! The most I would do is maybe drop a teams two worst finishes in the chase to the chase.

If we just allow drivers to get in for injury, then who decides who is hurt? If the team says he is hurt, would a NASCAR DR have the final say? I would dread that. And a team Dr could still put a driver in there that has no business driving, and say that a driver could not go at a track they are not good at, and throw in a "ringer", like at a road course.

Racing is a dangerous sport, and even though we need to find a way to keep injured drivers out of cars, I think that allowing to much freedom in that regard would lead to more issues about the integrity of the sport, and that is the last thing we need.

[LSC9901]

In thinking about this quickly I would suggest that it could be done but with strict limitations. How about the only driver that could repalce Rudd (for example) would be a driver from a Yates Busch team ? This way you cannot bring in a past champion or anything like that and this would also be an encouragement for the Busch series to return to a developmental series. Guys like Boris Said would get booted out at road course events but in my mind these ringers shouldn't be allowed anyway.

Other limitations could be introduced also. Only drivers who run regularly in another accepted series like CTS or maybe even ARCA. This again would push out drivers like Bill Elliott but again I'm OK with that. Initially he was used only for his past champion provisional.

[Phils20]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

In thinking about this quickly I would suggest that it could be done but with strict limitations. How about the only driver that could repalce Rudd (for example) would be a driver from a Yates Busch team ? This way you cannot bring in a past champion or anything like that and this would also be an encouragement for the Busch series to return to a developmental series. Guys like Boris Said would get booted out at road course events but in my mind these ringers shouldn't be allowed anyway.

Other limitations could be introduced also. Only drivers who run regularly in another accepted series like CTS or maybe even ARCA. This again would push out drivers like Bill Elliott but again I'm OK with that. Initially he was used only for his past champion provisional.

Good points. Sounds like we share the same concerns. I don't want drivers to feel as though they have to drive hurt, since that can endanger others, but I don't want them sitting out, and getting someone that drives a certain track better than they do earning them points.

I still think a good solution would be to allow the worst 2-4 finishes to be wiped out. That is better than allowing someone else to earn points for ya!

[Racer Duck]

"Driver's Championship" is for drivers - this is the one they call the [insert sponsor's name here] Cup.. and each driver competes against all the other drivers. if a driver drives for multiple teams during the season, he/she keeps all points earned. seems to make sense that a substitute driver for a team should NOT forfeit whatever points he/she earns to the regular driver.

on the other hand...

"Owner's Championship" is for owners. each team's owner competes against all the other team's owners. it gets even weirder in that two different teams can have the same owner, so , in effect, the owner is competing against himself! but owners points are what determines the Chosen (not driver's points) and owners get points for qualifying efforts even if they don't make the race (case in point, Mikey didn't make a bunch of races, but still crept up in the owner's points standings for making qualifying attempts.) and an owner is allowed to have as many different drivers in a car as he/she wants, because it's the team who's earning points, not the driver..

[PenelopePitStop]

I'm still lost ... but that's ok. When has the "owner/team" championship differed from the "driver" championship?

I thought each "owner/team" earned the same points as the "driver" during a race/season. It's who stands at the Waldorf in December, isn't it? I'm so flippin' confused ... doesn't matter ... life goes on ...

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

I'm still lost ... but that's ok. When has the "owner/team" championship differed from the "driver" championship?

I thought each "owner/team" earned the same points as the "driver" during a race/season. It's who stands at the Waldorf in December, isn't it? I'm so flippin' confused ... doesn't matter ... life goes on ...

I'm just guessing because I really don't know but since owner points mean a lot to the teams near the 35th place mark, that would seem to be where the largest effect is. Take a low team that may use 4-5 different drivers over the course of the year and then you can understand where the owner points come in. Lets say that team X has used 4 drivers over the year. None of the 4 drivers are in contention for a spot in the chase or the championship BUT ... the owner may have accrued enough points throughout the year to remain in the top 35.

Does that help ???

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I'm just guessing because I really don't know but since owner points mean a lot to the teams near the 35th place mark, that would seem to be where the largest effect is. Take a low team that may use 4-5 different drivers over the course of the year and then you can understand where the owner points come in. Lets say that team X has used 4 drivers over the year. None of the 4 drivers are in contention for a spot in the chase or the championship BUT ... the owner may have accrued enough points throughout the year to remain in the top 35.

Does that help ???

Somewhat. However, that damn top-35 is a different story.

[Jeffrey4318]

Basically look at it like this Tony Stewart has his own Championship. He gets points by where he finishes. Then the 20 car under the Joe Gibbs Racing names has a seperate Championship. If something happenst to Tony and he cannot race he will not get points for his Championship. Say Joe Blow jumps in the 20 car for the weekend by where Joe Blow finishes the 20 car gets points towards the owners championship. Like in the beginning of the year when Mark Martin was leading the points in the 01. Ginn was leading the owners championship as well with the 01 car. When Mark took a week off he didn't gain any points. Ginn did because the 01 still raced. Ginn was trying to win the Owners Championship while Mark had no chance at the Drivers Championship.

The Drivers Championship is just talked about more and taken more seriously because they are the face of the sport. Fans care more about the Jeff Gordons, Stewarts, and Johnsons, instead of the 24, 20, and 48. Owners probably care about the owners championship because that is what the top 35 starting spots is based on. Say Scott Riggs finishes the year out of the top 35. Next year though he gets with a team that finished in the top 35 he will be locked in because it is based on where that car finished in the Owners Championship not where the Drivers finished. Some similiar stuff is the Casey Mears got to race in the Allstar Race because the 25 car won a race last year with Brian Vickers. The Allstar race counts for both the Drivers and Owners.

[bears9]

NASCAR has got advertise its best product Which is Jeff Gordon Tony Stewart and Jimmie Johnson. The general public sees them not Hendrick Gibbs or childlress. That is the answer to the Question.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by bears9

NASCAR has got advertise its best product Which is Jeff Gordon Tony Stewart and Jimmie Johnson. The general public sees them not Hendrick Gibbs or childlress. That is the answer to the Question.

??? What was the question ???

[bears9]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

??? What was the question ???

The way I interpreted some of the posts were why shouldn't NASCAR have a team championship? Because the general public wants to see Jeff Gordon or Dale Earnhardt Jr. not Hendrick Motor Sports or Joe Gibbs racing