[Bob Tanner]

The following is lifted from Jayski, 9/1/07:

Mayfield's team expects 'big penalties' from infraction: Joe Lax, crew chief for Jeremy Mayfield's #36 Toyota, is expecting a significant penalty after his team got caught putting illegal weight in the car. In pre-qualifying inspection Friday at California Speedway, Mayfield's Bill Davis Racing car was found to have too much camber in the rear end. The team fixed the problem, which requires taking a blowtorch to the rear of the car, and went back through the inspection line, but the car was found to be too light on the right side. Then, in a moment of desperation, a team member stuck a piece of lead inside the water bottle to add the extra weight. But NASCAR discovered the illegal trick, which is considered tampering with the car.(SceneDaily.com)(9-1-2007)

Scott Riggs was legal and missed the race (ninth fastest qualifier of the "Non-Chosen").
Mayfield is driving a car with a funky sponsor who has a history of having trouble paying his bills.
Would someone remind me of the logic of allowing the #36 to start the race and making Riggs and the #10 go home?

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Scott Riggs was legal and missed the race (ninth fastest qualifier of the "Non-Chosen").
Mayfield is driving a car with a funky sponsor who has a history of having trouble paying his bills.
Would someone remind me of the logic of allowing the #36 to start the race and making Riggs and the #10 go home?

There you go again Bob tryin toput logic and NA$CAR together when you don't go hand in hand

[PettyBlue]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

The following is lifted from Jayski, 9/1/07:

Mayfield's team expects 'big penalties' from infraction: Joe Lax, crew chief for Jeremy Mayfield's #36 Toyota, is expecting a significant penalty after his team got caught putting illegal weight in the car. In pre-qualifying inspection Friday at California Speedway, Mayfield's Bill Davis Racing car was found to have too much camber in the rear end. The team fixed the problem, which requires taking a blowtorch to the rear of the car, and went back through the inspection line, but the car was found to be too light on the right side. Then, in a moment of desperation, a team member stuck a piece of lead inside the water bottle to add the extra weight. But NASCAR discovered the illegal trick, which is considered tampering with the car.(SceneDaily.com)(9-1-2007)

Scott Riggs was legal and missed the race (ninth fastest qualifier of the "Non-Chosen").
Mayfield is driving a car with a funky sponsor who has a history of having trouble paying his bills.
Would someone remind me of the logic of allowing the #36 to start the race and making Riggs and the #10 go home?

Agree again Bob!

[bob101]

Let's see what the rulebook says....

OH WAIT you can't look it up because the NASCAR rulebook is guarded more than Fort Knox.

Are you really suprised? The only rule in NASCAR is that NASCAR rules. No other sport is it so hard to obtain a copy of the rulebook.

Want an NHRA rulebook? Buy one from NHRA for $10. Want a NASCAR rulebook...well start your own team, pay the $5,000 fee then they will deliver a numbered copy to you, and expect it back at the end of the year - no kidding.

You might see 1 or 2 copies a year put up for sale on ebay and they are almost always at least 10 years old or more.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by bob101

Let's see what the rulebook says....

OH WAIT you can't look it up because the NASCAR rulebook is guarded more than Fort Knox.

Are you really suprised? The only rule in NASCAR is that NASCAR rules. No other sport is it so hard to obtain a copy of the rulebook.

Want an NHRA rulebook? Buy one from NHRA for $10. Want a NASCAR rulebook...well start your own team, pay the $5,000 fee then they will deliver a numbered copy to you, and expect it back at the end of the year - no kidding.

You might see 1 or 2 copies a year put up for sale on ebay and they are almost always at least 10 years old or more.

A couple months ago I heard Dave Moody, on SIRIUS' afternoon program defend NASCAR (SURPRISE! Sgt Carter! Moody is an announcer for MRN, which is owned by ISC, which is the publicly traded branch of NASCAR) and their resistance to making their rules public. Moody's (NASCAR's?) argument was that if NASCAR were to make its rules available to we unwashed masses, we would nit pick NASCAR decisions to a point where NASCAR would be unable to operate??!!

Are we fans REALLY that powerful? I seriously doubt it.

Maybe I'm just what Red Foreman (That 70's Show) would call a "Dumb-ass" but it seems to me that if NASCAR made its rules public, then made rule decisions in an honest, logical, up-front manner and was consistent in doing so, we fans would have little to nit-pick about?

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

A couple months ago I heard Dave Moody, on SIRIUS' afternoon program defend NASCAR (SURPRISE! Sgt Carter! Moody is an announcer for MRN, which is owned by ISC, which is the publicly traded branch of NASCAR) and their resistance to making their rules public. Moody's (NASCAR's?) argument was that if NASCAR were to make its rules available to we unwashed masses, we would nit pick NASCAR decisions to a point where NASCAR would be unable to operate??!!

Are we fans REALLY that powerful? I seriously doubt it.

Maybe I'm just what Red Foreman (That 70's Show) would call a "Dumb-ass" but it seems to me that if NASCAR made its rules public, then made rule decisions in an honest, logical, up-front manner and was consistent in doing so, we fans would have little to nit-pick about?

Well the way NA$CAR operates we would still be complainin because they would not follow their own rules, and they would call us conspiracy theorists and non-nascar fans or.... ah hell with it.... I'm gonna stop before I get on my pulpit.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by bob101

Let's see what the rulebook says....

OH WAIT you can't look it up because the NASCAR rulebook is guarded more than Fort Knox.

Are you really suprised? The only rule in NASCAR is that NASCAR rules. No other sport is it so hard to obtain a copy of the rulebook.

Want an NHRA rulebook? Buy one from NHRA for $10. Want a NASCAR rulebook...well start your own team, pay the $5,000 fee then they will deliver a numbered copy to you, and expect it back at the end of the year - no kidding.

You might see 1 or 2 copies a year put up for sale on ebay and they are almost always at least 10 years old or more.

it's not really that bad .. all you have to do is purchase a NASCAR license for the series you are interested in: Nextel Cup's, in this case, going price is in the neighborhood of $400 for a crew license .. with the license you get a copy of the NASCAR rulebook. It was the same (but considerably cheaper) when I bought a "sportsman" license back in the '70's: buy a license, get a rulebook.

besides, if the media were as interested in what the rule book said, they'd have already bought one. And if you think Ham-bone and Larry Mac and DW and Andy Petree and Tim Brewer and ..... don't have one, better think again.

personally, I'd rather spend my $400 on something else. If you've never had a set of rules to read, I can send you a set I was editing earlier this year for a series that never came to light. fascinating reading .. if you're building a car, but b-o-o-o-r-r-r-r-i-n-g other wise.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

it's not really that bad .. all you have to do is purchase a NASCAR license for the series you are interested in: Nextel Cup's, in this case, going price is in the neighborhood of $400 for a crew license .. with the license you get a copy of the NASCAR rulebook. It was the same (but considerably cheaper) when I bought a "sportsman" license back in the '70's: buy a license, get a rulebook.

besides, if the media were as interested in what the rule book said, they'd have already bought one. And if you think Ham-bone and Larry Mac and DW and Andy Petree and Tim Brewer and ..... don't have one, better think again.

personally, I'd rather spend my $400 on something else. If you've never had a set of rules to read, I can send you a set I was editing earlier this year for a series that never came to light. fascinating reading .. if you're building a car, but b-o-o-o-r-r-r-r-i-n-g other wise.

I've never been affiliated with a NASCAR track but I've heard the figure you mention.
Question, your Ducky-ness:

In your opinion why doesn't NASCAR make a rule book available to the unwashed masses? All the other major sports do (I think?) My feeling is that they would sell a lot of them, thus putting even more dinner into the NASCAR/ISC coffers.

I can think of no reason, other than NASCAR wants the latitude to play fast and lose with its rule enforcement without having some zealous fan looking over their shoulder. I think it detracts from NASCAR's overall credibility.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I've never been affiliated with a NASCAR track but I've heard the figure you mention.
Question, your Ducky-ness:

In your opinion why doesn't NASCAR make a rule book available to the unwashed masses? All the other major sports do (I think?) My feeling is that they would sell a lot of them, thus putting even more dinner into the NASCAR/ISC coffers.

I can think of no reason, other than NASCAR wants the latitude to play fast and lose with its rule enforcement without having some zealous fan looking over their shoulder. I think it detracts from NASCAR's overall credibility.

I actually have no idea. But my guess is "because it's always been done that way." Another case of NASCAR refusing to fix something that's broke while they merrily go their way fixing things that aren't. If they opened it up to everyone (which, technically it is) at a lower, more affordable price for the book alone, they'd have to hire Simon & Schuster to publish it (possibly loosing "artistic" control )

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

I actually have no idea. But my guess is "because it's always been done that way." Another case of NASCAR refusing to fix something that's broke while they merrily go their way fixing things that aren't. If they opened it up to everyone (which, technically it is) at a lower, more affordable price for the book alone, they'd have to hire Simon & Schuster to publish it (possibly loosing "artistic" control )

Yep. That's about what I thought you'd say. I agree, especially in the area of "Control."

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Yep. That's about what I thought you'd say. I agree, especially in the area of "Control."

I also agree on the control issue. Can you imagine what the unwashed masses (us) would act like if we knew the rules ??? We are loud enough now when we can only surmise.

Knowledge is a powerful thing.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I also agree on the control issue. Can you imagine what the unwashed masses (us) would act like if we knew the rules ??? We are loud enough now when we can only surmise.

Knowledge is a powerful thing.

Sure is. Just ask our government's Dept of Education. Unknowledgeable people are easily controled people.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Sure is. Just ask our government's Dept of Education. Unknowledgeable people are easily controled people.

Unfortunately some are actually in control.

[thunderfoot]

Wow guy's this is really deep. I wonder if I could write a paper on this for Pysch this year? So far in 2 years of college I have gotten to write 3 research papers with something to do with racing. Should have seen my Chem paper, COWABUNGA DUDES!

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by thunderfoot

Wow guy's this is really deep. I wonder if I could write a paper on this for Pysch this year? So far in 2 years of college I have gotten to write 3 research papers with something to do with racing. Should have seen my Chem paper, COWABUNGA DUDES!

Let me know what direction you want a paper to go and I'll give you fodder.

My undergrad was Psych and Medieval Spanish History and my MS is in Therapeutic Counseling. I'm a FIRM believer in Ellis' Rational Emotive Therapy. (As if that's probably a big surprise to you!) IMNSVHO Carl Rogers was a wimpy jerk.