[PettyBlue]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

PB, thy name is "Instigator!" LOL

Nooooooooooooooooo!LOL!

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by vincesanity82

I ask you fellow gtg friends, who else ever came from 17th with two laps left and won at talladega?

'nuff said..Dales the man..

I'll go you one better, vince.

Bill Elliott came from 2 laps down on green (not a single yellow during that time) to win at Atlanta.

Bill Elliott won Most Popular driver a record 16 times and withdrew his name from the ballot after winning it the last time in 2002. The award will be renamed for him after he officially retires.

Bill Elliott was the first driver to win the Winston Million, the first NASCAR driver to get the cover of Sports Illustrated, and the first NASCAR driver with a NASCAR officially licensed video game (Bill Elliott's NASCAR Challenge for MS-DOS)

And Bill Elliott set the NASCAR speed record at Talladega with an average speed of 212.809.

And he did all this while racing against who? Dale Earnhardt?

So where's the Bill Elliott legend? Guess he should have crashed a few cars for some extra wins so he'd be considered "great" too...

at Taladega you can go from 20th to 1st to 20th in 2 laps. it happens all the time.

[vincesanity82]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

I'll go you one better, vince.

Bill Elliott came from 2 laps down on green (not a single yellow during that time) to win at Atlanta.

Bill Elliott won Most Popular driver a record 16 times and withdrew his name from the ballot after winning it the last time in 2002. The award will be renamed for him after he officially retires.

Bill Elliott was the first driver to win the Winston Million, the first NASCAR driver to get the cover of Sports Illustrated, and the first NASCAR driver with a NASCAR officially licensed video game (Bill Elliott's NASCAR Challenge for MS-DOS)

And Bill Elliott set the NASCAR speed record at Talladega with an average speed of 212.809.

And he did all this while racing against who? Dale Earnhardt?

So where's the Bill Elliott legend? Guess he should have crashed a few cars for some extra wins so he'd be considered "great" too...

at Taladega you can go from 20th to 1st to 20th in 2 laps. it happens all the time.

im wondering ducky, did bill elliot win 7 chamionships, tied with richard petty? Im not seeing it..

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by vincesanity82

im wondering ducky, did bill elliot win 7 chamionships, tied with richard petty? Im not seeing it..

Almost but not quite ... one championship in 1988.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by vincesanity82

im wondering ducky, did bill elliot win 7 chamionships, tied with richard petty? Im not seeing it..

no, only 1 and 10 points short of besting Alan Kulwicki for another.

nowhere in your post that I responded to did you comment on his championships, but rather on the fact that he came from near the back in the top 20 to win a single race in 2 laps - to which I pointed out it wasn't much of an accomplishment compared to lapping the field 2 times during a green flag modern era race.

I added other credentials which should have boosted Bill's stature though not once did I ever say Bill should be placed above Sr, but I will now 'cause with all the "legions of Sr fans", somehow he was never able to overcome Bill Elliott's popularity, until he died.

but, let's compare apples to apples. in the wins column from 1975 to 2001 (the years Sr was in Cup) Sr was 2nd to Darrell Waltrip. Sr's championships coming from not wins but having run 2nd more than anyone else.

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Almost but not quite ... one championship in 1988.

you're right.

[vincesanity82]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

no, only 1 and 10 points short of besting Alan Kulwicki for another.

nowhere in your post that I responded to did you comment on his championships, but rather on the fact that he came from near the back in the top 20 to win a single race in 2 laps - to which I pointed out it wasn't much of an accomplishment compared to lapping the field 2 times during a green flag modern era race.

I added other credentials which should have boosted Bill's stature though not once did I ever say Bill should be placed above Sr, but I will now 'cause with all the "legions of Sr fans", somehow he was never able to overcome Bill Elliott's popularity, until he died.

but, let's compare apples to apples. in the wins column from 1975 to 2001 (the years Sr was in Cup) Sr was 2nd to Darrell Waltrip. Sr's championships coming from not wins but having run 2nd more than anyone else.

you're right.

you were asking where the bill elliott legend is and that he should of wrecked a few people to get more wins, I was just stating that it takes championships to get that status, after all your racing and getting wins in hope of getting the ultimate prize, a championship, dales got 7 that is tied with richard petty and bill elliott had 1, (almost 2) if that sounds better..no doubt though bill could hold his own..

[Bob Tanner]

I'll throw in a third choice for Da' Man. David Pearson.

574 starts
three championships
113 poles...19.6%
105 wins... 18.2%
366 top tens...63.7%

If I owned a team and every driver who was ever in NASCAR were available, Pearson'd be my man, hands down.

Over Dale,
Over Elliott,
Even over my two most favourite drivers of all time, Curtis Turner and Tim Richmond.

But then, it's just my personal opinion and it's neither right or wrong. Just an opinion.

[vincesanity82]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I'll throw in a third choice for Da' Man. David Pearson.

574 starts
three championships
113 poles...19.6%
105 wins... 18.2%
366 top tens...63.7%

If I owned a team and every driver who was ever in NASCAR were available, Pearson'd be my man, hands down.

Over Dale,
Over Elliott,
Even over my two most favourite drivers of all time, Curtis Turner and Tim Richmond.

But then, it's just my personal opinion and it's neither right or wrong. Just an opinion.

David Pearson has a better winning percentage than Richard Petty..

[Racer Duck]

I agree.

it really doesn't matter if you get the ring, only that you get it. then it becomes a p***ing match over who's the best of the ring holders and it usually comes down to who has the most rings.

and there have been many champs in the past in every sport that were successful on the field/court/track that were also not favorites. The NY Yankees is one that comes to mind of perennial champs who still can't win the popularity race. Lots of people just don't like winners .. unless it's "their guy".

(I have to admit here that Bill Elliott has always been one of my favorites and that Dale Sr. has not. I was always a Dodger fan until they ran away to the left coast, and I rooted mightily for the Celtics while Red Auerbach coached Bob Cousy, John Havlicek and Bill Russell - my favorite round baller of all time.)

[PettyBlue]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I'll throw in a third choice for Da' Man. David Pearson.

574 starts
three championships
113 poles...19.6%
105 wins... 18.2%
366 top tens...63.7%

If I owned a team and every driver who was ever in NASCAR were available, Pearson'd be my man, hands down.

Over Dale,
Over Elliott,
Even over my two most favourite drivers of all time, Curtis Turner and Tim Richmond.

But then, it's just my personal opinion and it's neither right or wrong. Just an opinion.

Hey Bob,I agree.As I am old and lazy could you or someone else do a bit of math for me?Petty said he raced for the love of it not records so if he would have retired after 1984 as in not run 1985 thru 1992 what would his numbers look like compared to David P.or anyone else.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by PettyBlue

Lee Petty,bump and run all time?LOL,I was there to see,were you?

Who the heck put a bee in your bonnet?

First, I started following NASCAR closely in 1985. Is that ok?

Second, no, I wasn't there to see Lee Petty, but I am interested in the history of the sport. On ESPN's Top 20 NASCAR Drivers it was stated that the ol' bump-and-run was Lee's style. Not even for the win. Just to get ahead. I've also read articles supporting that fact. And wasn't it Lee who took Dale under his wing? Perhaps that's where Dale learned it.

Frankly, I don't really care if it was Lee's style or not. I was simply pointing out that Dale is not the sole owner of that reputation ... justified or not.

[Nevadastars]

Like him or not, Dale put excitement into every race he ran. If he was in back, you knew he was getting to the front. If it took a nudge or bump, so be it. With the stiff competition, some of these tracks are nearly impossible to pass on without getting aggressive.
I'd much rather watch someone with the 'nads to do what it takes to win, than someone that "settles" for 2nd place like "class acts" Martin and Elliott. Earnhardt was a winner, pure and simple. 2nd place was the first loser in his eyes.
I'm not condoning wrecking someone to win, and hated it when Dale did it on RARE OCCASIONS, although some seem to think it was every other week.
There is nothing wrong with using "the chrome horn" as Buddy Baker would say. Rubbing is racing, especially on short tracks. If you want to watch an antiseptic sport, watch golfing.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Second, no, I wasn't there to see Lee Petty, but I am interested in the history of the sport. On ESPN's Top 20 NASCAR Drivers it was stated that the ol' bump-and-run was Lee's style. Not even for the win. Just to get ahead. I've also read articles supporting that fact. And wasn't it Lee who took Dale under his wing? Perhaps that's where Dale learned it.
.

PPS, please don't get too caught up in ESPN's program. I'd take it with a grain of salt, especially in the area of comparing drivers of the late 40's and early 50's to more current drivers. Racing since you began watching it is a long way from the racing scene of Lee Petty's day.

Let's take Lee Petty and his alledged bump and run tactics. I saw him drive a couple time but don't remember him doing this, but...

Think about the era. They were driving absolutely stock cars. They were on the widest tires available on wheels that usually only had a plate welded on it for reinforcement. The big thing was the engines. Lee was a Plymouth driver and until 1954 he competed against Olds V8's and Hudson 6's with a small, in-line 6 cyl. engine! The Hudson was a pretty big 6 cyl. and it had the lowest center of gravity in the automotive world. It was hardly a "level playing field." When these guys were running, a higher finishing position sometimes meant the different between your family eating hamburger and eggs or rabbit and fatback.

Speaking only for myself, if you are in an under-powered car and pushing someone off the track meanth a better finish... I'd do it.

[3fanforever]

If you'll endulge me, I'll list a few of the reasons why I'm a Dale Earnhardt fan forever.

* After Dale Jr. won his first Winston in 2000 as a rookie driver in the Cup, Dale Sr, joined him in victory lane. Jr. said in an interview "My father coming to Victory Lane and not having an airplane to rush and get on, so he stuck around and we threw beer on each other and jumped around and hollered and just made fools of oursleves." "I don't think I'll ever get that close to that feeling I had that night again."
That's why I like Dale Earnhardt!

* In 1999 Dale Jarrett won the Winston Cup championship. He wanted to bring his family and friends to New York for the ceremony, to show his appreciation for their support, but didn't have a way to get that many people there. He called Dale Earnhardt to rent his airplane. Dale agreed. In December, Dale Jarrett called Earnhardt and wanted to settle up the bill. Dale told him "I'll send you something in the mail."

A few days later, Dale Jarrett got an official letter from Dale Earnhardt Inc. It looked like an invoice, with all the details about how many people flew on the plane and the miles flown and all. Then, at the bottom, Dale Earnhardt wrote: "Congratulations on the championship. Merry Christmas. No charge."
That's why I like Dale Earnhardt!

* One year Dale Earnhardt went to a local church. They were having a car wash in the parking lot. Dale let them wash his truck. He asked the pastor why they were doing it. He told Dale it was to raise money to pave the parking lot. Dale asked how much would it cost. The pastor said around $10,000 dollars. Without hesitating, Dale took out his checkbook and wrote a check for $10,000 to the church, and gave it to the pastor on one condition. Nobody would ever know who it came from. This story was never told until after his death.
That's why I like Dale Earnhardt!

* In 1996 Earnhardt was involved in a freightning crash at Talladega. In 2000, he underwent neck surgery for lingering problems associated with that crash. While he was in the hospital, he was told a young boy who was also having neck surgery wanted to meet him because he was a Dale Earnhardt fan. Dale agreed. He let the boy take a picture with him, with both of them in a neck brace. Only one picture was taken and he gave it to the little boy.
That's why I like Dale Earnhardt!

* In 1998, Dale Earnhardt was practicing for the Daytona 500, which he'd never won. He had a great car, but after practice, Larry McReynolds told Dale they needed to do some work on the car. So Dale went to socialize with the fans. Larry McReynolds said "Well, he's picking a helluva time to be social with the fans. We gotta work on this car."

Later, Dale comes back and in Larry's words "He's absolutley beaming." He met up with a little girl in her wheelchair from the Make-A-Wish Foundation. She had a very bad disease, and this may have been the last 500 she'd ever see, and all she wanted to do was meet Dale. He spent 15 minutes with her, and she gave him a lucky penny to hold on to for the race. He went looking for some adhesive to glue it to the dashboard of his race car. Larry McReynolds helped him do just that. The rest of that day is history. Larry later said "Kids would open up his heart till it got bigger than the moon."
That's why I like Dale Earnhardt!

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by 3fanforever

If you'll endulge me, I'll list a few of the reasons why I'm a Dale Earnhardt fan forever.

* After Dale Jr. won his first Winston in 2000 as a rookie driver in the Cup, Dale Sr, joined him in victory lane. Jr. said in an interview "My father coming to Victory Lane and not having an airplane to rush and get on, so he stuck around and we threw beer on each other and jumped around and hollered and just made fools of oursleves." "I don't think I'll ever get that close to that feeling I had that night again."
That's why I like Dale Earnhardt!

* In 1999 Dale Jarrett won the Winston Cup championship. He wanted to bring his family and friends to New York for the ceremony, to show his appreciation for their support, but didn't have a way to get that many people there. He called Dale Earnhardt to rent his airplane. Dale agreed. In December, Dale Jarrett called Earnhardt and wanted to settle up the bill. Dale told him "I'll send you something in the mail."

A few days later, Dale Jarrett got an official letter from Dale Earnhardt Inc. It looked like an invoice, with all the details about how many people flew on the plane and the miles flown and all. Then, at the bottom, Dale Earnhardt wrote: "Congratulations on the championship. Merry Christmas. No charge."
That's why I like Dale Earnhardt!

* One year Dale Earnhardt went to a local church. They were having a car wash in the parking lot. Dale let them wash his truck. He asked the pastor why they were doing it. He told Dale it was to raise money to pave the parking lot. Dale asked how much would it cost. The pastor said around $10,000 dollars. Without hesitating, Dale took out his checkbook and wrote a check for $10,000 to the church, and gave it to the pastor on one condition. Nobody would ever know who it came from. This story was never told until after his death.
That's why I like Dale Earnhardt!

* In 1996 Earnhardt was involved in a freightning crash at Talladega. In 2000, he underwent neck surgery for lingering problems associated with that crash. While he was in the hospital, he was told a young boy who was also having neck surgery wanted to meet him because he was a Dale Earnhardt fan. Dale agreed. He let the boy take a picture with him, with both of them in a neck brace. Only one picture was taken and he gave it to the little boy.
That's why I like Dale Earnhardt!

* In 1998, Dale Earnhardt was practicing for the Daytona 500, which he'd never won. He had a great car, but after practice, Larry McReynolds told Dale they needed to do some work on the car. So Dale went to socialize with the fans. Larry McReynolds said "Well, he's picking a helluva time to be social with the fans. We gotta work on this car."

Later, Dale comes back and in Larry's words "He's absolutley beaming." He met up with a little girl in her wheelchair from the Make-A-Wish Foundation. She had a very bad disease, and this may have been the last 500 she'd ever see, and all she wanted to do was meet Dale. He spent 15 minutes with her, and she gave him a lucky penny to hold on to for the race. He went looking for some adhesive to glue it to the dashboard of his race car. Larry McReynolds helped him do just that. The rest of that day is history. Larry later said "Kids would open up his heart till it got bigger than the moon."
That's why I like Dale Earnhardt!

I can appreciate and admire Dale Earnhardt the person. I just don't care much for Dale Earnhardt the driver.