[Phils20]

Much as I like Harvick, he ended up boeing wrong, since Truex had the hit the pushed JPM in Harvick.

However, if we are going to penalize BS, we should penalize fighting.

Personally, I don't think we should fine either. But if they are going to pull this PC BS and fine things like the Dale Jr and Toy Stewart words, then I really don't think you can allow this to come out without something.

quote John Darby.

"I don't think they were fighting," said Robin Pemberton, NASCAR's vice president of competition. "They were discussing things." Said series director John Darby, "I thought it was cool as hell."(more at ESPN.com)

So physical Violence is a better "family Value" then cussing? And this was a fight, no punches were thrown, but it is what it is. I guess we "discuss" things with our hands? Are we palying charades?? I think not.

I have no issue with it, I can't state that strongly enough, but we have to remain consisitent. And don't give me that FCC crap about the word A**. We alll knew what he meant. He was not referring to a donkey!!! This just proves they don't care about the words, they are just covering their own A** with the fines.

[bears9]

I like both dudes but Harvick was way out of line and Montoya should kicked his "Butt"

[Phils20]

Originally Posted by bears9

I like both dudes but Harvick was way out of line and Montoya should kicked his "Butt"

And yeah, Montoya should have kicked his butt!

[rdutari]

Originally Posted by kcoruol

It looked like Harvick came over to make sure Montoya was OK. Then Montoya started yelling at Harvick, you could tell because Montoya was right in his face with his helmet bopping up & down, then I saw Montoya grab Harvick's face mask and started pulling on it. Face mask, personal foul, 15 yards!

HA ha! You're joking, right? I think Harvick was way out of line. He didn't know what had really happened, he should have, at least listen to what Monty had to say. I mean, the guy (Harvick) took out Pruet in a very dirty move on saturday. I didnt see Scott threatening to Kick his ass.
I would have loved it if they'd taken their helmets off. Like Tony said, "If you're not taking you're helmets off, don't waste our time." It was entertaining none the less.

[Lefty Noob]

Penalize them for the fight, yes. That I agree with.

I have no idea why the donkey thing keeps coming up. The word ass, even when refferring to buttocks, is not an FCC violation. I've heard it on network, not cable, TV. According to the commission's website, "The FCC has defined profanity as 'including language so grossly offensive to members of the public who actually hear it as to amount to a nuisance.'" The word 'ass' has been found NOT to adhere to that standard. Hence, no fine.

Now, oddly enough, if you add the word 'hole' on the end of it, it IS considered profanity by the FCC. Go figure.

[Phils20]

Originally Posted by Lefty Noob

Penalize them for the fight, yes. That I agree with.

I have no idea why the donkey thing keeps coming up. The word ass, even when refferring to buttocks, is not an FCC violation. I've heard it on network, not cable, TV. According to the commission's website, "The FCC has defined profanity as 'including language so grossly offensive to members of the public who actually hear it as to amount to a nuisance.'" The word 'ass' has been found NOT to adhere to that standard. Hence, no fine.

I agree. And this is not to argue with you about it, but to pose a question in general.

So, do the words "Hell" and "BS" really offend folks??

Now I can see the obvious four letter word, and anything referring to certain organs!!

However, the false outrage we all have about A** and hell really seems to depend on the driver. And certainly folks are divided along those lines when it comes to what they would like to see done, according to driver preferences.

Even the pushing and shoving really isn't that big a deal. I'm sure there is more pushing on the average elementary school playground than there was yesterday.

So is this "outrage" coming out more because of folks like or dislike involving one driver or the other, or is it genuine outrage??

I think it is the former.

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by Phils20

So is this "outrage" coming out more because of folks like or dislike involving one driver or the other, or is it genuine outrage??

I think it is the former.

like i said yesterday ...... from many of the interviews at the track of people from all teams involved .... even after they had seen the entire replay, i think they made it clear .... JPM is not and probably will never be one of the 'Good Old Boys'

[jks812]

Originally Posted by jks812

And Tharp doesn't expect any penalties to come from the shoving match between the two drivers either.

Wasn't Gordon fined for shoving Matt at Bristol? If he was, why not these?

[rdutari]

Originally Posted by simple simon

like i said yesterday ...... from many of the interviews at the track of people from all teams involved .... even after they had seen the entire replay, i think they made it clear .... JPM is not and probably will never be one of the 'Good Old Boys'

I have to admit, I'm new to Nascar, and obviously new to this forum, but I'm curious, how was JPM supposed to avoid hitting Harvick, if his car was out of control as result of the bump from behind? Also, I know Harvick won the Daytona 500 and there is no doubt he is one of the best, but his move on Pruet on Saturday, is that considered a 'Good Old Boys' move? In my oppinion that was much worse than what happened on Sunday. Harvick was at the time in total control of his car.

[Phils20]

Originally Posted by simple simon

like i said yesterday ...... from many of the interviews at the track of people from all teams involved .... even after they had seen the entire replay, i think they made it clear .... JPM is not and probably will never be one of the 'Good Old Boys'

That is probably very true, and is exactly what I think.

There are other drivers that get the shaft, based on rep or past behavior as well. But not many have earned this bad a rep in this short a time.

I do think that JPM has come in, and been a bit of a rough driver, so he has made his own bed.

In this case though, he did nothing wrong. Nothing. He was out of his car, just surveying the damage when Harvick came over. He did not cause the wreck at least not without help, and did not start the confrontation. I would have done just what he did, shoved back.

[Lefty Noob]

Originally Posted by Phils20

So, do the words "Hell" and "BS" really offend folks??

Hell shows up in PG movies, so I don't think too many people consider it offensive. BS, yeah, I know I'd really rather not hear it during "family friendly" programming hours.

Even the pushing and shoving really isn't that big a deal. I'm sure there is more pushing on the average elementary school playground than there was yesterday.

True. The "fight" itself was quite laughable. But I look at it like this - leaving the bench in basketball or leaving the dugout in baseball brings forth a penalty most times. So shouldn't leaving the car in NASCAR?

[jks812]

Originally Posted by rdutari

I have to admit, I'm new to Nascar, and obviously new to this forum, but I'm curious, how was JPM supposed to avoid hitting Harvick, if his car was out of control as result of the bump from behind? Also, I know Harvick won the Daytona 500 and there is no doubt he is one of the best, but his move on Pruet on Saturday, is that considered a 'Good Old Boys' move? In my oppinion that was much worse than what happened on Sunday. Harvick was at the time in total control of his car.

Welcome to the greastest Nascar forum.
Yes the move Harvick made on Pruett was okay to Harvick. Harvick's one of those, I can do it to you but nobody better do it to me, guys.

[Phils20]

True. The "fight" itself was quite laughable. But I look at it like this - leaving the bench in basketball or leaving the dugout in baseball brings forth a penalty most times. So shouldn't leaving the car in NASCAR?
__________________


No, this is not Basketball or baseball.

This is auto racing. We can't compare the two. In basketball you are usually arguing a hard foul, and maybe even just a comment you don't like.

In baseball, the pitch thrown at the head can be deadly, but it is usually just a reaction to being thrown behind, and mad at the retaliation for the same.

In racing, I just think the emotions run a bit higher when you get out of that car.

I don't have any more issue with this than I do in Hockey. It is part of the tradition. If anything, it may be a more wimpy rendition of it.

Go boys go! Show us you are more the sponsor quoting robots.

[I Flip For Carl]

All I know is the last thing I want is for Nascar to turn into Pro Wrestling I mean ,people have already accused Nascar of fixing the race's .I am not a fan of wrestling .

What makes me say what I said above ? The following

"I don't think they were fighting," said Robin Pemberton, NASCAR's vice president of competition. "They were discussing things." Said series director John Darby, "I thought it was cool as hell."(more at ESPN.com)

For 2 of Nascar's top dog's to say that Kevin and Montoya "weren't fighting" and that "they were just discussing thing's" is purely wrong . For John Darby to say that he thought it was "...cool as hell" that is wrong too.

Montoya was grabbing Kevin's face mask and shoving him. I never once saw Kevin shove Montoya . Kevin did grab Montoya's wrist's and try to get him to stop shoving and just talk ,but Montoya wouldn't have it .

And another thing ,Montoya said that he was a clean racer and never wrecked anyone on purpose . Yeah right ! Whatever ! How quickly that he forgets that he spun out his own team mate in the Busch race at Mexico just so he could win the race .

[Phils20]

And I don't see what went on there as "pro wrestling". Nothing scripted about honest reactions.

Now those Victory Lane interviews, that is pro wrestling. Just as rehearsed and scripted. Just like most of todays drivers.

But it isn't all on them, that is what is expected today.

The Montoya/Harvick incinident is the most tradional thing I've seen in a while. Would have been better if they have thrown down.