[simple simon]

ok, here we go again .... many of you may have looked at my thread title and wondered just what the heck im talking about, well i will tell you

Bob brought up a good point in another thread, he was talking about how back in the day most drivers were also mechanics

that got me to thinking, makes sense to me that a driver could really learn a lot by taking a turn at being a crew chief ...... sitting in that chair and listening to a driver communicate on the radio

now of course i dont think Jr should take off the next Daytona 500 and swap places with Tony Eury, but maybe to sit there for an hour during a test session or something ....... i really think it could help any driver be a better communicator

just a thought i had

[SteelPhoenyx]

Makes sense.

I know that Matt Kenseth has a really good level of communication with Robbie Reiser, and part of that must be due to Robbie's experience actually driving a car for a while.

[SpaceCadet]

I think it goes back to your roots. I sit and watch the activity in the pits at the local track and without exception, the very best drivers know every piece and part in their cars. If they're in a wreck during their heat, those drivers are the first ones with their heads stuck inside whatever parts have been damaged. Tools fly, parts fly, colorful language flies, but nearly every time, these drivers are calling the shots to getting that car out on the track for the feature. And while they may have as much or more knowledge than their actual crew chief, most are respectful and thankful for the help of the entire crew. They realize they can't be two places at once. They can either be in the car or calling the shots in the pits during the race, not both. And the chiefs let the more knowledgable drivers have the reins in the pits when it's appropriate. Driver's definately need to be crew chiefs to appreciate the chief's job.

[kcoruol]

I understand what you're saying but, I don't think the mechanics for these cars are going to want some driver snooping around the engine and getting in the way.

IMHO NASCARs are like fighter jets. A fighter jet has avionics, jet mechs, hydraulics, weapon systems, radar, electronics, fuel systems, sheet metal fabrication, etc, etc, etc.

Just too many specialties for any one person to learn. Sure the pilot is going to be familiar with the systems but nobody is going to want a pilot working on them. They have only one job, fly and kill the enemy.

NASCAR drivers just need to drive and win. The last thing a crew chief wants to see is Kyle Busch down in the garage, under the hood, with a wrench in his hand!

Sure the pilot or race car driver has to be intelligent enough to communicate with the crew chief to let them know how the jet or car is performing, that goes with out saying. Once that is done the crew chief is the one who figures out how to fix it.

[jks812]

They could have a race for charity, say for 150 laps, where the crew chief drives and the drivers crew chief. Now that would be interesting to watch.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by kcoruol

I understand what you're saying but, I don't think the mechanics for these cars are going to want some driver snooping around the engine and getting in the way.

IMHO NASCARs are like fighter jets. A fighter jet has avionics, jet mechs, hydraulics, weapon systems, radar, electronics, fuel systems, sheet metal fabrication, etc, etc, etc.

Just too many specialties for any one person to learn. Sure the pilot is going to be familiar with the systems but nobody is going to want a pilot working on them. They have only one job, fly and kill the enemy.

NASCAR drivers just need to drive and win. The last thing a crew chief wants to see is Kyle Busch down in the garage, under the hood, with a wrench in his hand!

Sure the pilot or race car driver has to be intelligent enough to communicate with the crew chief to let them know how the jet or car is performing, that goes with out saying. Once that is done the crew chief is the one who figures out how to fix it.

tell that to Ryan Newman & Mark Martin.

Ryan has a degree in Mechanical Engineering and has been working on his race cars his whole life. He's frequently seen in the garage working on his car and many times is not available for interview 'cause he's working on the wrecked car, trying to get it back on the track.

Mark Martin is his own tire manager. He, not the crew chief, makes the decisions about air pressure and whether to go with 2 or 4. Just listen in on his radio and you'll hear him and his crew chief discussing tire options, but you'll also hear Mark make the decision. Mark also checks each tire after every practice session.

There are many drivers who know more than their crew chief about the car and are more capable of determining what to fix and how to fix it.

One of the most significant drivers in NASCAR only won a single race and was not allowed to celebrate in the winner's circle! He did everything, frequently using his own sons as pit crew 'cause he couldn't afford the pros and at times got out of the car during a pit stop to help change a tire or refuel. When mechanical woes happened during the race, which was often back then, he would grab a wrench and go to work. His name was Wendell Scott.

Yes, today there are specialists, but there are still drivers who are their own best crew chief. One who started as a crew chief, had huge success and has since stepped into the driver's seat is Kirk Shelmerdine. Kirk was Dale Earnhardt's crew chief at RCR for 46 of Dale's wins, his crew won the annual crew chief competition 4 straight years, and he is the youngest crew chief to win a NASCAR race and the youngest crew chief to win a NASCAR Cup title.

Just recently in Drag Racing, one of the top crew chiefs announced he was going to start driving a Funny Car.

So, while you have high hopes for separation of drivers and crew chiefs abilities, the real world is considerably different. And I don't expect it to change anytime soon.

[suedon70]

Originally Posted by jks812

They could have a race for charity, say for 150 laps, where the crew chief drives and the drivers crew chief. Now that would be interesting to watch.

That's a great idea! Love to see Tony Eury Jr fit his toukas in the #8 - what a sight!!!

[lilsexy08]

One driver back in the day that would be a great crew chief is Richard Petty!

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by lilsexy08

One driver back in the day that would be a great crew chief is Richard Petty!

He probably could do either job and do it well but I believe I agree with the thought that the technical side, for the most part, should be left to the techies. The driver needs to be able to communicate to the CC what doesn't work right for him. From my perspective the driver really doesn't need to know all about gear ratios, shocks and so on. Yes a good general knowledge is an asset but I don't feel that a Ryan Newman degree is a necessity. Some day Ryan as an owner may be able to get right in the middle of what is happening but in the meantime if he can relate to the team what he needs and what isn't working for him, that should work fine. Another point is that even all the drivers out there today who do not have degrees most assuredly know more than the weekend driveway mechanic anyway. They didn't make it that far on a smile.

[kcoruol]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

tell that to Ryan Newman & Mark Martin.

Ryan has a degree in Mechanical Engineering and has been working on his race cars his whole life. He's frequently seen in the garage working on his car and many times is not available for interview 'cause he's working on the wrecked car, trying to get it back on the track.

Mark Martin is his own tire manager. He, not the crew chief, makes the decisions about air pressure and whether to go with 2 or 4. Just listen in on his radio and you'll hear him and his crew chief discussing tire options, but you'll also hear Mark make the decision. Mark also checks each tire after every practice session.

There are many drivers who know more than their crew chief about the car and are more capable of determining what to fix and how to fix it.

One of the most significant drivers in NASCAR only won a single race and was not allowed to celebrate in the winner's circle! He did everything, frequently using his own sons as pit crew 'cause he couldn't afford the pros and at times got out of the car during a pit stop to help change a tire or refuel. When mechanical woes happened during the race, which was often back then, he would grab a wrench and go to work. His name was Wendell Scott.

Yes, today there are specialists, but there are still drivers who are their own best crew chief. One who started as a crew chief, had huge success and has since stepped into the driver's seat is Kirk Shelmerdine. Kirk was Dale Earnhardt's crew chief at RCR for 46 of Dale's wins, his crew won the annual crew chief competition 4 straight years, and he is the youngest crew chief to win a NASCAR race and the youngest crew chief to win a NASCAR Cup title.

Just recently in Drag Racing, one of the top crew chiefs announced he was going to start driving a Funny Car.

So, while you have high hopes for separation of drivers and crew chiefs abilities, the real world is considerably different. And I don't expect it to change anytime soon.

I suppose I over estimated the role of the crew chief.
Or under estimated the role of the driver.

Of course in the discussion of these topics there rarely are absolutes. I'm sure there are talented drivers who are just as much at home under the hood as they are behind the wheel, conversely there probably are talented drivers who could drive their car through the eye of a needle but probably should be banned from the tool box. I'm just saying, and I could be wrong, but I imagine it takes a whole team of specialists to build these cars, maintain these cars, and keep these cars racing.

In any case, my opinion means squat here as I'm brand new to the spectator portion of the NASCAR sport. Also, other than changing the oil, I know enough about cars to know that I shouldn't be touching anything under the hood. IMHO even the worst mechanic and worst driver, at this level (NASCAR Nextel), has to be at the top of their respective professions.

On a scale of 1 to 100 my NASCAR knowledge is probably a 2, 1 being the least amount of knowledge. It was only a few months ago that NASCAR to me was driving cars around in a circle. Now the whole thing totally fascinates me. Like how the heck do they get the tire lined up on the bolts and the lugs on so fast, when they change the tires there's lugs laying around all over the place and then the driver burns rubber out of the pit, don't the lugs laying around mess up the tires, why change 2 tires instead of all four tires, and I'm still trying to figure out the whole Lucky Dog thing.

[Racer Duck]

I agree that the driver needs to be able to communicate with the crew chief. and guys like Ryan don't come along all that often. what I was disagreeing with was the statement that the drivers should keep hands off everything on the car but the steering wheel and leave the diagnosis and fixing to the crew chief.

the team is always better if all the knowledge the team possesses is available and used. Ryan knows the theories of how it works and also why things break. Mark knows tires and, from a driver's perspective, what each little change does to the car, so he's more able to make it comfortable for himself to drive. Wendell is an example of a driver/owner forced to "poor boy" it. and Kirk is an example of a crew chief who became a driver. Many of the crew chiefs were drivers and realized they didn't have the talent (or desire) to take it to the top: Robbie Reiser is a good example of that - he and Matt were competitors "back home" and Robbie is responsible for recruiting Matt into the big leagues.

I don't know of any drivers who did not work on their own equipment early on. that's just part of the game. but a few guys like Jeff Gordon had success early and quickly moved to the top, so their mechanicing days were short. unlike the jet pilots, drivers do spend lots of time with the crew so the technical side is often the point of conversation. still they all know how to turn a wrench...and if for no other reason than osmosis, they have learned (or are learning) the technical side of race car design.

[lilsexy08]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

He probably could do either job and do it well but I believe I agree with the thought that the technical side, for the most part, should be left to the techies. The driver needs to be able to communicate to the CC what doesn't work right for him. From my perspective the driver really doesn't need to know all about gear ratios, shocks and so on. Yes a good general knowledge is an asset but I don't feel that a Ryan Newman degree is a necessity. Some day Ryan as an owner may be able to get right in the middle of what is happening but in the meantime if he can relate to the team what he needs and what isn't working for him, that should work fine. Another point is that even all the drivers out there today who do not have degrees most assuredly know more than the weekend driveway mechanic anyway. They didn't make it that far on a smile.

Ryan Newman wouldn't be such a good choice. When my exs nephew was in ARCA and they were at the big tracks on race day he met Ryan Newman and unless Newman is soley concentrating on something he doesn't know what to do with himself. You get his mind off the subject your on forget it! LOL!

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by lilsexy08

and unless Newman is soley concentrating on something he doesn't know what to do with himself. You get his mind off the subject your on forget it! LOL!

So your sayin he has a one track mind?

[lilsexy08]

Originally Posted by Quality88

So your sayin he has a one track mind?

Yea! LOL!