[Racer Duck]

In a story on NASCAR.COM Busch Series director Joe Balash explained why NASCAR ruled the way it did.

"Once the caution came out, the field was frozen," Balash said. "Once the field is frozen, all cars must maintain cautious pace in order to be scored. At the time that the field was frozen, [Ambrose] was in the lead. [Gordon] did not maintain a cautious pace, and by NASCAR rule, cars that do not maintain a cautious pace are scored only when they blend back into the continuous line.

"... The tower ordered the 55 multiple times to get into position. The directive was acknowledged by the crew chief of the 55 and also communicated to the driver of the 55. The driver ignored NASCAR's directive. He was warned that he would be black-flagged if he did not comply."

After trying to get Gordon to drop back in line, NASCAR dropped the green flag -- and Gordon promptly stuck a bumper under Ambrose, who went around in a cloud of smoke in Turn 2.

That incident prompted NASCAR officials to quit scoring Gordon, although he continued to run in front of leader Harvick.

"NASCAR took emergency action per the rulebook, section 12-2, thus parking the 55 which was also ignored," Balash said. "The black flag with the white cross was displayed to the 55 when it crossed the start/finish line on Lap 74. The 55 finished the line in 18th position."

you can read the whole story at NASCAR.COM - Confusing finish leaves drivers, fans speechless - Aug 4, 2007

[Lefty Noob]

Still doesn't explain why a black-flagged car was allowed to intentionally take out the race leader, and the race wasn't stopped and the order reset after that. I would think if the car wasn't supposed to be in that position, any interference it caused in the race would be undone. Again, I'm no NASCAR expert, but it just seems like a common sense issue to me.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Lefty Noob

Still doesn't explain why a black-flagged car was allowed to intentionally take out the race leader, and the race wasn't stopped and the order reset after that. I would think if the car wasn't supposed to be in that position, any interference it caused in the race would be undone. Again, I'm no NASCAR expert, but it just seems like a common sense issue to me.

there you go applying common sense to NASCAR .. ya ought to know the two aren't compatible.

[Lefty Noob]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

there you go applying common sense to NASCAR .. ya ought to know the two aren't compatible.

This thing was botched in so many ways it's not even funny, but I'll never figure out how a black-flagged car can intentionally wreck out the race leader, and the powers that be fail to freeze the field and put him back in front. It's almost comical in its complete and utter absurdity.

[kcoruol]

Just goes to show what happens when NASCAR races in a place where the language is French!

[jks812]

I also don't understand that after the spin out happened under caution, not before, why they didn't restart 1 and 2. Nascar don't even make sense in this one. They were running 1 and 2, caution comes out, Robby gets spun. At worse they should have restarted 1 and 2, or both at the back of the lead lap.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

[/indent]

"... The tower ordered the 55 multiple times to get into position. The directive was acknowledged by the crew chief of the 55 and also communicated to the driver of the 55. The driver ignored NASCAR's directive. He was warned that he would be black-flagged if he did not comply."

[indent] After trying to get Gordon to drop back in line, NASCAR dropped the green flag -- and Gordon promptly stuck a bumper under Ambrose, who went around in a cloud of smoke in Turn 2.

The above is the crux of the entire problem.

NASCAR's "ordering the 55 multiple times..." "warned he would be black flagged...'" and then "after trying...NASCAR dropped the green flag." reminds me a an acquaintance of ours. They have a bratty little curtain climber and her mother's idea of discipline is telling her, "If you do that, mommy's going to get mad at you!"

I can't tell you who is the bigger pain-in-the-ass, the bratty little girl or the idiot mother.

[harvick29]

how can you keep a cautious pace when you were spun AFTER the field was frozen.when you cross the last scoring loop thats where you line up.gordon was clearly second.the thing is the top 2 guys hadnt realized the caution was out when robby made the pass for the lead.in his interview robby said when he realized the caution was out he slowed and ambrose got in to him.not on purpose he wasnt aware of the caution.so if gordon was penalized because he was spun therefore not being able to keep a cautious pace.than why wasnt ambrose penalized for spinning him under CAUTION.besides if nascar was going to make judgment calls why couldnt they see there was a race for the lead these cats were bumper to bumper caution comes out one slows the other doesnt robby gets spun after the field was frozen.put them 1 2 the way they were when the cation came out.and why did it take nascar right before the green to tell gordon to get behind the 33.if its a black and white rule then they shouldnt have had to think about it.gordon was stopped on the track clear as day after being spun so why didnt they tell him to drop back right away.and if he did drop back wouldnt he have to stop to let everyone in front of him.wouldnt that also be not keeping a cautious pace.so whats next evryone gonna start spinning out the leader under caution so the leader gets penalized for not keeping a safe pace.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by harvick29

how can you keep a cautious pace when you were spun AFTER the field was frozen.when you cross the last scoring loop thats where you line up.gordon was clearly second.the thing is the top 2 guys hadnt realized the caution was out when robby made the pass for the lead.in his interview robby said when he realized the caution was out he slowed and ambrose got in to him.not on purpose he wasnt aware of the caution.so if gordon was penalized because he was spun therefore not being able to keep a cautious pace.than why wasnt ambrose penalized for spinning him under CAUTION.besides if nascar was going to make judgment calls why couldnt they see there was a race for the lead these cats were bumper to bumper caution comes out one slows the other doesnt robby gets spun after the field was frozen.put them 1 2 the way they were when the cation came out.and why did it take nascar right before the green to tell gordon to get behind the 33.if its a black and white rule then they shouldnt have had to think about it.gordon was stopped on the track clear as day after being spun so why didnt they tell him to drop back right away.and if he did drop back wouldnt he have to stop to let everyone in front of him.wouldnt that also be not keeping a cautious pace.so whats next evryone gonna start spinning out the leader under caution so the leader gets penalized for not keeping a safe pace.

guess the only way it makes sense is if you're looking thru NASCAR's rose-colored glasses. common sense & logic don't help in this situation.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by kcoruol

Just goes to show what happens when NASCAR races in a place where the language is French!

Excusez-moi??!! I'm not a fan of French food (Vastly over rated), French wines (even MORE vastly over rated), or the French themselves (Paris is OK, just in love with itself, but the south of France; Cannes, Toulon, Ville-france, etc.,etc. - they give arrogance an entire new meaning). I just don't believe that the fact they were racing in an area where a dialect of French is spoken had nothing to do with NASCAR's inability to get it right.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Excusez-moi??!! I'm not a fan of French food (Vastly over rated), French wines (even MORE vastly over rated), or the French themselves (Paris is OK, just in love with itself, but the south of France; Cannes, Toulon, Ville-france, etc.,etc. - they give arrogance an entire new meaning). I just don't believe that the fact they were racing in an area where a dialect of French is spoken had nothing to do with NASCAR's inability to get it right.

Bob, .. there's some kind of double negative there .. sounds like you're saying the opposite of what I think you wanted: "French speaking population did not contribute to NASCAR's bumbling" is the thought I had in my mind before I read the last sentence...

[LSC9901]

From what I read, and I'm sure no one disagrees, NASCAR failed to actually enforce its own orders. If they did, and I have no reason to believe otherwise, order the 55 to get into position and he did not they why oh why did the green flag get waved versus a red flag or at the very least leave the yellow in effect. I will not speculate who was responsible for the accidents, but as I see it NASCAR never should have thrown the green. By throwing the green it seems in a general way they said that everyone was just fine ?????

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

I just don't believe that the fact they were racing in an area where a dialect of French is spoken had nothing to do with NASCAR's inability to get it right.

Bob, .. there's some kind of double negative there .. sounds like you're saying the opposite of what I think you wanted: "French speaking population did not contribute to NASCAR's bumbling" is the thought I had in my mind before I read the last sentence...

Ouch. My Creative Writing 101 Professor would surely be in catatonic shock over that one, old buddy. Please replace "Nothing" with "anything."

All better now? Methinks that I've lived down here in the south for too long. Thanks for keeping me literate; I often need that.

[nascarfan24]

It's just like Stewart at Talladega, he was spun and fell from like 5th to 20th

[jks812]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Ouch. My Creative Writing 101 Professor would surely be in catatonic shock over that one, old buddy. Please replace "Nothing" with "anything."

All better now? Methinks that I've lived down here in the south for too long. Thanks for keeping me literate; I often need that.

Do like me Bob, blame your keyboard, not us Southerns. When I hit wrong letters I say my letters are playing hide and go seek.