[BringBackWilkesboro]

Originally Posted by 3fanforever

I'm sorry, but I think NASCAR has become sissified these days.
(I guess I can say that. I've been following NASCAR for almost 30 years.)
What they're doing to the drivers is nothing more than a form of castration.
They can't say or do anything that's deemed "detrimental to stock car racing", in their opinion.
They're so scared of offending some of the people who watch on TV,
or show up at the races, that they're putting the drivers and the crew chiefs in glass bubbles.
I'm more offended by what NASCAR is doing than what Jr. said or Smoke said.
And this was on Cable TV. I've heard much worse there.

Will this make me stop supporting and following NASCAR?
Absolutely not! I'll be a NASCAR fan till the day I die, regardless of
how I feel about the direction NASCAR is going.

Well 3 FF, you've got good company here. I myself have been a race fan for over 40. We've got alot of 30 and 40 year fans, and I know of 1 or 2 that are 50+ year fans. You'll find them out for yourself soon enough.

[3fanforever]

Hey thanks BringBackWilkesboro. Nice to know there's some other older NASCAR fans here as well as all the younger ones. That's what makes NASCAR so great.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by BringBackWilkesboro

I don't think he should get anything. Tony said a word that the FCC deemed "naughty". I don't see any issue with it. I mean, do we honestly think anybody watching was offended? Most of us probably use it on a daily basis. I just can't find any significance.

But he will be fined at least $10,000 and placed on probation because it was naughty.

I have always had a slight problem with some of George Carlin's "Seven Words You can't Say on TV."

Please permit me to do a little test to either validate or not validate my theory:

Let's take, for expediency, Tony's and Junior's "S-Bomb." Do the following:

To yourself, say the "S-Bomb; Sh*t." Now get a mental image in your mind of what this word translates to...

Now, follow the "X's"
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
OK, now say any acceptable substitute for the offensive word (Poop, Doo-doo, ca-ca, doody, #2, excremement, etc.). Now, again, get a mental image of what this words translates to.

Maybe I'm just "strange," but both the "S-Bomb" and the socially-accepted word bring forth basically the same mental image. So, riddle me this, Batman, why is one acceptable and the other isn't? If they all conjure up the same basic image, then why not fine, penalize and be offended anytime any of these words pop up?

I have always found this part of profanity fascinating.

[Racer Duck]

boy Bob, you sure know how to take the fun out of things...

Welcome Back! we missed you.

oh yeah, there's another Bob been visiting here. our confusion level has just increased....

[LSC9901]

OK well let me try this approach. NASCAR has a rule about this, or at least a general rule. The rule was violated. Now lets look at this from a different word point-of-view. How about the "F"-bomb instead. There are words/terms that could also be used for that. Those too conjure up mental images. Point is that no matter the image the word was spoken and is a violation of a rule. A line must be drawn and hopefully the NASCAR mis-justice group can enforce it equally.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

OK well let me try this approach. NASCAR has a rule about this, or at least a general rule. The rule was violated. Now lets look at this from a different word point-of-view. How about the "F"-bomb instead. There are words/terms that could also be used for that. Those too conjure up mental images. Point is that no matter the image the word was spoken and is a violation of a rule. A line must be drawn and hopefully the NASCAR mis-justice group can enforce it equally.

In my opinion there are words that should be allowed and words not allowed. In my opinion the word Tony used did not come across offensive, all he was doing is voicing his opinion. Even worse, Jr got fined for saying hell in 2004 I think it was? These corporate sponsors need to let these drivers act the way they want and say what they want. The funny thing is NASCAR says "we want to hear all of the drivers' opinions", yet they fine Stewart for voicing his opinion about the people who don't like him. Um, ok

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

OK well let me try this approach. NASCAR has a rule about this, or at least a general rule. The rule was violated. Now lets look at this from a different word point-of-view. How about the "F"-bomb instead. There are words/terms that could also be used for that. Those too conjure up mental images. Point is that no matter the image the word was spoken and is a violation of a rule. A line must be drawn and hopefully the NASCAR mis-justice group can enforce it equally.

I agree, Steve, and see nothing wrong with the penalty. I think that it was the right thing to do, especially after the 25 pts and fine they gave The King of the Red Army two years ago when he said that, compared to what his dad had done, he hadn't done "S**T."

I was just going at the thing from a philosophical standpoint, not a legalistic one.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Mike24

In my opinion there are words that should be allowed and words not allowed. In my opinion the word Tony used did not come across offensive, all he was doing is voicing his opinion. Even worse, Jr got fined for saying hell in 2004 I think it was? These corporate sponsors need to let these drivers act the way they want and say what they want. The funny thing is NASCAR says "we want to hear all of the drivers' opinions", yet they fine Stewart for voicing his opinion about the people who don't like him. Um, ok

I disagree Mike since I believe a line must be drawn. You're say it is OK to say BS. What if he had referred to all of his non fans as F____ing A__holes at the same time. Would that be OK to since he was voicing his opinion ??? From my perspective the answer is NO and above and beyond that ... it was a violation of a rule and so far NASCAR has equally enforced it.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I disagree Mike since I believe a line must be drawn. You're say it is OK to say BS. What if he had referred to all of his non fans as F____ing A__holes at the same time. Would that be OK to since he was voicing his opinion ??? From my perspective the answer is NO and above and beyond that ... it was a violation of a rule and so far NASCAR has equally enforced it.

What is the big deal though? We are acting like he robbed a bank. The majority of fans didn't find it offensive, so what is so offensive by it? What happend to the days when you could cuss out someone and we didn't whine and moan about it like we do today? Hmmm, I would say corporate sponsors have something to do with this.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Mike24

What is the big deal though? We are acting like he robbed a bank. The majority of fans didn't find it offensive, so what is so offensive by it? What happend to the days when you could cuss out someone and we didn't whine and moan about it like we do today? Hmmm, I would say corporate sponsors have something to do with this.

Not sure what you mean by "What happend to the days when you could cuss out someone and we didn't whine and moan about it like we do today?" Just when was this ? I don't recall it ever being on TV and I'm pretty confident that is what the rule is partially referring to.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Not sure what you mean by "What happend to the days when you could cuss out someone and we didn't whine and moan about it like we do today?" Just when was this ? I don't recall it ever being on TV and I'm pretty confident that is what the rule is partially referring to.

My biggest issue is not Tony saying the word, but NASCAR thinking they can tell the drivers not to say this. Tony does not care and will say what he wants if NASCAR likes it or not. I like that attitude out of Stewart and I wish more drivers would have this type of attitude. If NASCAR thinks they can control what words the drivers use, they will have some major issues doing so.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Mike24

What is the big deal though? We are acting like he robbed a bank. The majority of fans didn't find it offensive, so what is so offensive by it? What happend to the days when you could cuss out someone and we didn't whine and moan about it like we do today? Hmmm, I would say corporate sponsors have something to do with this.

I have to agree with Steve, Mike. The trend toward public cursing, profanity and general scatological comments is a relatively new-found concept.

Yeah, I know all about First Amendment right, but with rights come responsibilities. The responsibility here is to not intentionally say something which you are fully aware will be offensive to the majority of the people hearing your statement. It's merely a simple case of being polite and considerate. Tony was neither of these.

Was I offended? No. No especially. Will civilization, as we know it, come to an end because of Tony's statement? I doubt it. Do I curse? You bet! See me smash my finger with a hammer and watch the air turn blue. Do I curse when there are people around which might be offended? I try my best not to.

Tony didn't try. Usually you will find profanity is the way people express themselves when they have nothing of importance to say.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Mike24

My biggest issue is not Tony saying the word, but NASCAR thinking they can tell the drivers not to say this. Tony does not care and will say what he wants if NASCAR likes it or not. I like that attitude out of Stewart and I wish more drivers would have this type of attitude. If NASCAR thinks they can control what words the drivers use, they will have some major issues doing so.

They already have controlled the profanity.When the rule is violated the price is paid. I'm for progressive penalties. Keep doing it and the price of the penalty increases.

If these guys want to stand around in the garage or in their motor home area and talk like that I have no issue with it. My ears are not virgin ears. I heard and said much worse but just because I do it doesn't mean I think it is OK to do it anywhere. Should I stand up in front of everyone at the Wal Mart check out and call them all A__holes ?? Even if it is just my opinion ??

It's a rules violation. Simple enough. According to your path of thinking rough driving should be OK if they want to do it. It must be OK for Chad Knaus to cheat because in his opinion it's OK. It must be or he wouldn't have done it. Same for Eury Jr and for MWR when they used an additive. Rules are rules, violations according to the rules are violations ... no matter what the perpetrator thinks

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Mike24

My biggest issue is not Tony saying the word, but NASCAR thinking they can tell the drivers not to say this. Tony does not care and will say what he wants if NASCAR likes it or not. I like that attitude out of Stewart and I wish more drivers would have this type of attitude. If NASCAR thinks they can control what words the drivers use, they will have some major issues doing so.

Mike, the issue isn't what was said. or even why it was said. the issue is it was said in a public format against a rule that was known at the time he said it.

it's Tony's choice whether to follow the rules or not. it's NASCAR's choice whether to keep the rule or not. one has no effect on the other.

you may not know this but most Fortune 1000 companies have rules about behavior outside of work. you may say that's unfair, you may say they don't have the right, you can complain and protest all you want, but if you violate those rules you are subject to dismissal. these companies don't give a whit about what you or your friends think about their rule. if you want to work there, you'll follow the rule or find yourself on the outside looking in.

it's the same with NASCAR. they don't give a whit what Tony or his fans think about their rule. Tony is only one driver, there's hundreds in NASCAR. most of the others don't have a problem with this particular rule. Tony does .. Tony breaks it .. Tony looses. someone else breaks it .. that person looses too.

Tony is unremarkable in his sport. Yes, he's won some races, so have others. Yes he's won some championships, so have others. some say he's an uncontrollable bad boy. they've said that about others too. some claim he's the greatest driver ever. there have been other great drivers, some maybe better than Tony. how will he ever prove he's the best if he isn't allowed to race?

This is a career decision .. Tony and you see it as a rebellion. it might be if there was a way Tony could assume control of NASCAR, but he can't. it's a closed shop. if they don't open the door, he has to practice his craft elsewhere.

so it comes down to whether Tony wants to continue a promising career in NASCAR or not. it's Tony's decision, no one else's.

we all hope he chooses right.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

They already have controlled the profanity.When the rule is violated the price is paid. I'm for progressive penalties. Keep doing it and the price of the penalty increases.

If these guys want to stand around in the garage or in their motor home area and talk like that I have no issue with it. My ears are not virgin ears. I heard and said much worse but just because I do it doesn't mean I think it is OK to do it anywhere. Should I stand up in front of everyone at the Wal Mart check out and call them all A__holes ?? Even if it is just my opinion ??

It's a rules violation. Simple enough. According to your path of thinking rough driving should be OK if they want to do it. It must be OK for Chad Knaus to cheat because in his opinion it's OK. It must be or he wouldn't have done it. Same for Eury Jr and for MWR when they used an additive. Rules are rules, violations according to the rules are violations ... no matter what the perpetrator thinks

this isn't about rough driving and cheating. It's about NASCAR and Tony's bad language. It is a rule violation, but it is a ridiculous rule that is just protecting those corporate sponsors. Let the drivers speak their mind. If they want to say something about a certain driver, let them. I agree that it's wrong to use a cuss word, but if the drivers choose to use a cuss word to express their opinions, let them do so. It's called voicing your true emotions and opinions, which NASCAR thinks is wrong.