[I Flip For Carl]

I just read an article that talked of how Nascar fan's that have been following the sport for year's are no longer attending race's ,nor are they watching it on tv ,thus making the rating's go down.

In my honest opinion I think that Nascar killed the sport when Brian France was handed the reign's This had to be THE BIGGEST mistake made in alllllllll of Nascar history. I say sorry to Bill France Jr and I bet that Big Bill France Sr is rollllllllllllling in his grave and the joke that his grandson has made of his (Big Bill's) baby

Alot of the fan's don't like the Chase and Nascar is SOOOOOOO inconsistent with rule's and some of the rule's are soooo absurd . And all of this pretty much came to be after Brian took over .

Oh and HOW could I forget the COT .The ONLY reason that I'm for that car is the safety feature's .

So NOW ,to save their "skin" (I'm being nice ) Nascar is doing thing's to bring in "new" fan's and they could care less about the longtime fan's.

They have always said that Nascar is all about the fan's . HA! What a joke or should I say ,what a lie . Maybe the "new" fan's but what about the fan's that have been there for many year's? The "new" fan's won't know what Nascar was like from the experience of attending a live race before the COT came to be.

They also say "change is good" ,but has Nascar never heard "if it ain't broke don't fix it "?

Nascar was fine just the way it was ,now they are doing a death spiral .

[LSC9901]

Ahhhh yes. The old time, long time fan. Simply put the France clan has no need for us. Many do not open their wallets and most will agree that this is what the "New NASCAR" is all about.

This is a discussion we've had many times over but is always one that gets many responses.

Let the landslide begin.

[I Flip For Carl]

How long do you think that Brian France would be in "office" if it was possible to impeach him the way they impeach president's from the White House ?

Especially if it were all left up to longtime fan's ..


I say make the King the new owner of Nascar

[jks812]

Originally Posted by I Flip For Carl

How long do you think that Brian France would be in "office" if it was possible to impeach him the way they impeach president's from the White House ?

Especially if it were all left up to longtime fan's ..


I say make the King the new owner of Nascar

If left up to the fans, I don't think he would have lasted but a couple of days.

[jks812]

I like the COT. It does seem safer. And another thing, when it hits the wall, it don't go to pieces like the other car does. I like that, makes it safer for the driver.
I also happen to like the chase. I like the fact that we don't know half way into the season who the champ is gonna be. I also like that it has pretty much came down to the last race and almost down to the last lap before you knew which of 2 guys were gonna be champ.
With some of the tracks they race at, it makes for a very boring race. I use to be glued to the tv when the race was on. Now at some tracks, like California, if I get to watch the first few laps and the last few, I'm okay. I can't sit through the whole race.
But yes I have noticed that in the last couple of years, I have been watching less and less of the races. Except the truck race, I'm not gonna miss one of those.

[Racer Duck]

[flame off], [devil's advocate on]
as much as you don't like some of the things that have been done since Sr. let go of the reins, think about this:

• we get to watch every race in the season, including the cup, cup-lite (as some call it) and truck (in the not so distant past you couldn't get some even on radio);
• there's a website that, thought it can be a bit of a maze at times, holds a wealth of information about the sport and the participants;
• we don't have to wait, sometimes days, to find out who won;
• and safety is at an all time high.

without an administration willing to "risk improvement", it isn't likely we'd be this far along.
[devil's advocate off]

[flame on]still don't like the dude....

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by I Flip For Carl

I just read an article that talked of how Nascar fan's that have been following the sport for year's are no longer attending race's ,nor are they watching it on tv ,thus making the rating's go down.

In my honest opinion I think that Nascar killed the sport when Brian France was handed the reign's This had to be THE BIGGEST mistake made in alllllllll of Nascar history. I say sorry to Bill France Jr and I bet that Big Bill France Sr is rollllllllllllling in his grave and the joke that his grandson has made of his (Big Bill's) baby

Alot of the fan's don't like the Chase and Nascar is SOOOOOOO inconsistent with rule's and some of the rule's are soooo absurd . And all of this pretty much came to be after Brian took over .

Oh and HOW could I forget the COT .The ONLY reason that I'm for that car is the safety feature's .

So NOW ,to save their "skin" (I'm being nice ) Nascar is doing thing's to bring in "new" fan's and they could care less about the longtime fan's.

They have always said that Nascar is all about the fan's . HA! What a joke or should I say ,what a lie . Maybe the "new" fan's but what about the fan's that have been there for many year's? The "new" fan's won't know what Nascar was like from the experience of attending a live race before the COT came to be.

They also say "change is good" ,but has Nascar never heard "if it ain't broke don't fix it "?

Nascar was fine just the way it was ,now they are doing a death spiral .

You are making one cardinal mistake, if I may say so. That is NOT to say that I don't agree with everything but one thing you stated. I am one of those "Long time fans," (longer than many here have been alive) and speaking only for myself, today's NA$CAR racing in Cup and Cup Lite is like a wreck along the Interstate; you don't really want to look but you just can't help stealing a peek.

The mistake you made was, [sometimes not so] gradually, over the past forty five years, NASCAR has gone from being a sport to being a full-fledged business. I guess it all started going to Hell when NASCAR became so big, back in the 60's when the manufacturers got directly involved. Then Andy Granitelli and STP started the movement to high-rolling sponsorship.

yesterday I heard Kyle Petty's son, Austin discussing the cost of having a racing enterprise and he said the absolute cost was somewhere just north of $75 million. (I'm sure that doesn't even include real estate) When you start dealing with figured that high, sportsmanship, fair play, and entertainment for entertainment's sake, all go right out the window.

Brian France is NOT, primarily, a race fan. He is a businessman and like any typical bean-counter, is interested in only one thing, the bottom line. "Old time race fans DO NOT increase the bottom line. Generally speaking we, as a group, feel we work too hard for our money and think frittering it away on overpriced race tickets and silly, VASTLY overpriced memorabilia, is kind of silly. Plus many of we "Old time fans" find it increasingly difficult to relate to this new breed of driver, who, in many cases, couldn't tell the difference between a harmonic balancer and a torque converter. Personally, I tend to view a lot of them as whiny, pampered prima donnas.

NA$CAR, with assistance from the illustrious media, has convinced people that good, hard stock car racing is no longer enough. A truly meaningful race must have the majority of the car still running finish on the lead lap. Also NA$CAR's idea of a successful race is to have the finish so close that it must be a photo finish. Anything else is... well, boring. Tony Stewart brought this to the attention of the public after Phoenix and he was chastised mightily for his impudence. The "debris cautions" have been kept at a minimum since then, but don't worry, they'll be back.

NA$CAR also thought that a season finish must be always close so they invented the playoffs. Manipulation taken to its highest conclusion and it just is downright WRONG!

The latest version of the NA$CARmobile. version 2. I'm going to deal with that one in another thread. I'm adding some seasoning to the crow I'm about to eat.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

You are making one cardinal mistake, if I may say so. That is NOT to say that I don't agree with everything but one thing you stated. I am one of those "Long time fans," (longer than many here have been alive) and speaking only for myself, today's NA$CAR racing in Cup and Cup Lite is like a wreck along the Interstate; you don't really want to look but you just can't help stealing a peek.

The mistake you made was, [sometimes not so] gradually, over the past forty five years, NASCAR has gone from being a sport to being a full-fledged business. I guess it all started going to Hell when NASCAR became so big, back in the 60's when the manufacturers got directly involved. Then Andy Granitelli and STP started the movement to high-rolling sponsorship.

yesterday I heard Kyle Petty's son, Austin discussing the cost of having a racing enterprise and he said the absolute cost was somewhere just north of $75 million. (I'm sure that doesn't even include real estate) When you start dealing with figured that high, sportsmanship, fair play, and entertainment for entertainment's sake, all go right out the window.

Brian France is NOT, primarily, a race fan. He is a businessman and like any typical bean-counter, is interested in only one thing, the bottom line. "Old time race fans DO NOT increase the bottom line. Generally speaking we, as a group, feel we work too hard for our money and think frittering it away on overpriced race tickets and silly, VASTLY overpriced memorabilia, is kind of silly. Plus many of we "Old time fans" find it increasingly difficult to relate to this new breed of driver, who, in many cases, couldn't tell the difference between a harmonic balancer and a torque converter. Personally, I tend to view a lot of them as whiny, pampered prima donnas.

NA$CAR, with assistance from the illustrious media, has convinced people that good, hard stock car racing is no longer enough. A truly meaningful race must have the majority of the car still running finish on the lead lap. Also NA$CAR's idea of a successful race is to have the finish so close that it must be a photo finish. Anything else is... well, boring. Tony Stewart brought this to the attention of the public after Phoenix and he was chastised mightily for his impudence. The "debris cautions" have been kept at a minimum since then, but don't worry, they'll be back.

NA$CAR also thought that a season finish must be always close so they invented the playoffs. Manipulation taken to its highest conclusion and it just is downright WRONG!

The latest version of the NA$CARmobile. version 2. I'm going to deal with that one in another thread. I'm adding some seasoning to the crow I'm about to eat.

they changed the name of the "harmonic balancer" several years ago .. now it's called a "Torsional Vibration Absorber" or an "Elastomer Balancer" or a "harmonic damper" or a "Pulley Balancer" (these straight from the current Summit Racing Equipment catalog - the definitive source for everyday race parts, i.e., the newbie racer's bible..) get with the times .. uh, sorry, that's what you're expounding on, isn't it? never mind.

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

they changed the name of the "harmonic balancer" several years ago .. now it's called a "Torsional Vibration Absorber" or an "Elastomer Balancer" or a "harmonic damper" or a "Pulley Balancer" (these straight from the current Summit Racing Equipment catalog - the definitive source for everyday race parts, i.e., the newbie racer's bible..) get with the times .. uh, sorry, that's what you're expounding on, isn't it? never mind.

And were one to find a torque converter in a NASCAR garage, it's likely someones personal car has been the butt of a nasty joke.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

And were one to find a torque converter in a NASCAR garage, it's likely someones personal car has been the butt of a nasty joke.

True. My point, of course, was that this new crop of drivers have been raised to realize that the big bucks are in the driving. That's why so many of the new crop is so blase about tearing up their cars and engines; they don't have to lower themselves to fix them.

Put the gun down, Mabel! That last statement was a GENERALIZATION! Some of these kids have, and can, actually WORK on cars! Both of them do frequently, I'm sure!

[PettyBlue]

Hell Bob,even Cale Y didn't touch a car as far as working on it.lol.

[Mike24]

Well.... I wonder why these longtime fans are turning against the sport. Maybe because France is changing NASCAR, and the older fans who watched in the 70's and 80's simply don't like it? Quite frankly I don't see what the problem is with the Chase. It's a playoff system, all other sports have them. So, whats the big issue with it in NASCAR?

My point is: NASCAR is not for you fans who watched in the 70's and 80's, unless you can adapt to change. All sports go through a change that the older fans of the sport don't like. I'm sure when I reach over 25 years as a NASCAR fan, I won't like it because I was used to what it was in the mid 90's to right now. It's all about adapting to change, and Brian France has put that to the test for sure.

Back in the old days you had no corporate sponsors, you could run around and chase people, etc etc. That's what the 25-30 year fans grew up to. But the sport has changed not only into a sport, but into a business, and it is eating up at those 25-30 year fans.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Mike24

Well.... I wonder why these longtime fans are turning against the sport. Maybe because France is changing NASCAR, and the older fans who watched in the 70's and 80's simply don't like it? Quite frankly I don't see what the problem is with the Chase. It's a playoff system, all other sports have them. So, whats the big issue with it in NASCAR?

My point is: NASCAR is not for you fans who watched in the 70's and 80's, unless you can adapt to change. All sports go through a change that the older fans of the sport don't like. I'm sure when I reach over 25 years as a NASCAR fan, I won't like it because I was used to what it was in the mid 90's to right now. It's all about adapting to change, and Brian France has put that to the test for sure.

Back in the old days you had no corporate sponsors, you could run around and chase people, etc etc. That's what the 25-30 year fans grew up to. But the sport has changed not only into a sport, but into a business, and it is eating up at those 25-30 year fans.

A lot of what you say above rather tightens my jaw, Michael. I'll live with it. However, your statement (in bold) is one hundred percent correct. My trouble is that, I watch the DOW and S&P for action in business (the last two days I've seen waaaay too much action and it's all been bad, for me). I choose not to watch business for entertainment but by your own admission above, that is exactly what the "new" NASCAR fans are expected to do; watch "business", not "sport." Think I'll pass, thank you.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

A lot of what you say above rather tightens my jaw, Michael. I'll live with it. However, your statement (in bold) is one hundred percent correct. My trouble is that, I watch the DOW and S&P for action in business (the last two days I've seen waaaay too much action and it's all been bad, for me). I choose not to watch business for entertainment but by your own admission above, that is exactly what the "new" NASCAR fans are expected to do; watch "business", not "sport." Think I'll pass, thank you.

Just saying what I think.

I have to disagree. We watch NASCAR to see racing, right? But in todays generation, business is apart of sports, there is no way around that. Money runs sports, where back in the old days some ran for free. Thats just the reality whether we like it or not.

[wardfan]

.. now it's called a "Torsional Vibration Absorber" or an "Elastomer Balancer" or a "harmonic damper" or a "Pulley Balancer"

I don't know what that stuff is but it sure sounds pornographic