[SpaceCadet]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

unlike today when the ends justify the means, back in that day it didn't. in fact, the whole moral attitude of the public back then would not allow a hero to win underhandedly (except for wrestling, which is a completely different matter altogether.) that's the era LSC, Bob and myself are from. those are the foundational principals we were taught as young boys. these racers you claim "did it", for the most part were raised the same way. that makes me disbelieve the "everybody did it" mantra,'cause we didn't and we probably never personally knew anyone who did .. well, we may have known them but we didn't hang around them - they weren't people we liked.

Some of us gals were taught the same thing. Being from that era as well, I find myself becoming more and more frustrated by the "win at all cost" attitude. There are rules of etiquette even in motorsports, and maybe even "unwritten". You drivers/former drivers know what I mean. There are times in every racer's career when they are trying to move someone and they wreck them instead. That's gonna happen even to the best. But to consistantly wreck to win and be ok with it is different. It detracts from a driver's true driving ability. It's dangerous, it's arrogant. And as far as brake checking? So many times I have seen a driver check up because they have no choice - check up or wreck. They get rear ended. The driver in the back screams "brake check", never looking at why the guy in front slowed up. Many, many times it is to avoid causing a wreck. It's a tough call. It is my humble opinion that aggressive driver's can avoid many of the wrecks they cause when the guy in front checks up, but they choose not to. Sometimes they wreck themselves, sometimes it causes "the big one". But in that split second (or less) they have to react, they assume the driver ahead is messing with them and figure they'll teach him a lesson. If they too, check up, they may find themselves as the filling in a messy sandwich, so hitting the brakes as well isn't necessarily the answer. It's the attitude that's the answer. "Don't slow down no matter what because I will run over your sorry butt regardless of the outcome for me, you, or 41 other cars" is an attitude I find very hard to swallow. It's often impossible to avoid an accident when you get checked up on. But to start the race with the intent to run over someone if it happens just makes a bad situation worse.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by vincesanity82

I think people have forgotten tha earnhardt was brake checked frequently, but didn’t play the game, as he would just drive through a brake checker, never backing off or changing lines. Brake checkers are usually the loudest whiners! “I got run over”. Well Earnhardt was in your rear view when you slowed down, what the hell did you expect was going to happen?

I will (in my opinion) give you partial credit for that answer. Here is my theory why I think that may have happened on occasion but not "FREQUENTLY". I'm guessing that many, most, if not all drivers (us mortals) have pulled up behind someone who was either barely doing the speed limit or was considerably under the limit. One of those annoying things that happens is that the car that's behind gets on the bumper of the slowpoke who is in front. We (never me) try to intimidate them into going faster because we are in a hurry, late or whatever. The lead car hits the brakes. So how many more times do you climb on the bumper ??? Probably none. I would suspect that if Sr. was on my tail and he had a reputation for "Crashin' & Passin'" ... I'm not gonna be break checking a guy that is going to slam me out of the way. So while I agree it may have happened to Sr by some newbies I don't agree that it happened frequently. Keep in mind that there are no brake lights so there is no real advantage to the fool that does it. At that point you have a few choices. Race him or let him by. If I'm as fast or faster you're gonna have to pass me if you are a true racer. If you're a demolition derby racer you're the same as the guy who turns around and shoots after taking 9 paces instead of 10 in the gentleman's gun dual.

Still just my opinion.

[LSC9901]

Sorry "NASCAR Female Fans" I'll stop complaining about an off topic issue in your thread.

[jks812]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Oh, boy ... for fear of getting my head cut off ... here we go.

I do believe that on that ESPN's 20 Greatest NASCAR Drivers show, there was a segment on Lee Petty. The other drivers, owners, etc., who commented on Lee stated that he would bump and bang his way through the field to get the win. All the way through the field. Footage backed that up. Now, I never witnessed Lee, so I don't know how accurate that is. But, hey, if other drivers say it, respectfully I might add, I tend to believe them.

Not taking a position either way.

I think I better log off before your damning laser beam comes through my laptop, smacks me upside the head, and kills me!






http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb096&pp=ZN

I remember that segment. Richard said his daddy told him that if you have to bump someone out of your way for the win, you bump them.

[Racer Duck]

I've said this before, but it bears repeating.

one of the best defensive moves a driver can employ is to vary their laps such that they let off at different points and position themselves in different "lanes" going into a corner. same goes for exiting a corner. that way the driver behind is not able to establish a rhythm or pattern, thus making it harder for them to pass. the best drivers in the world know this and it's part of their arsenal. they also know how to combat it: with consistently fast laps to gain the advantage when the other car slows at the wrong time or moves the wrong way.

unfortunately, today many call this brake checking or blocking, which it is not. brake checking is obvious .. you see the accordion effect immediately. blocking is also obvious: the tail wagging the dog is a good visual for comparison. varying your laps isn't as obvious and is usually only discernible by examining lap times and the inability of a faster car to pass a slower one.

same can be said for restarts .. the better driver on the pole varies their speed and acceleration point to gain an advantage over the cars next to and immediately behind him/her-self.

some drivers seem to always be hollering "he brake-checked me!" but more often than not, the video shows no such thing. drivers speed up and slow down for all kinds of reasons .. the better driver knows this and is ready to make adjustments when it happens. the not so good driver is the one who runs into the guy in front of him 'cause he wasn't paying attention.

ladies, this thread is yours .. sorry we guys commandeered it.

[wingkey1]

Racer Duck says - one of the best defensive moves a driver can employ is to vary their laps such that they let off at different points and position themselves in different "lanes" going into a corner

Yup, yup, yup!!

"Brake check" - in/for the majority of instances is pure "bull". As the "leader" the LAST thing you want to do is slow down. Unless you're some kinda wimp butt that never been there before. Many/some "slow downs" through the corner are nothing more than wheel spin (loss of traction) as the lead driver tries to maintain the lead a bit too vigorously. Spin the rear, you slow down.

Cup level NASCAR is much more tolerant than near any other level or series with regards to "blocking". As a race judge (personal experience) we'd black flag a blocker (series/level rules dependent). As a car owner in the very same series/level, in possibly the very next race, we'd counsel our driver(s) to vary by half a groove low coming up out of the corner to stop the "lead change exchange" going on lap after lap. Race judges will likely miss "half a groove low". While wildly entertaining for the audience (every turn a lead change), with every turn, the pack was closing. Come up a half a lane low out of a corner, and the racer behind you had to "pinch down" (turn the wheel) a bit more in attempt to get under again, and in doing so scrub off speed.

Those who repeatedly cry "brake check" at the top levels immediately deserve you're suspicion as a possible "cry baby".

Gender neutral post.