[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by vincesanity82

yea dale did some rubbin' but so did richard petty..its part of racing, you do what you have to win, let me ask you this, has anyone ever been DQ'd for it..

Didn't Busch get parked this year for "rough" driving ??? It was in the pits so that made it worse but .... he did get parked.

As for DQ'd probably not but I say again that what I write is my opinion and on the crash & pass issue I'm pretty adamant about how "I" view it. I'm not forcing my view of this issue on the rest of our community ... just voicing my views.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Didn't Busch get parked this year for "rough" driving ??? It was in the pits so that made it worse but .... he did get parked.

As for DQ'd probably not but I say again that what I write is my opinion and on the crash & pass issue I'm pretty adamant about how "I" view it. I'm not forcing my view of this issue on the rest of our community ... just voicing my views.

Rough driving is different than bumping someone out of the way to win. When it's for the win, you do whatever it takes. If that means bumping someone out of the way, then so be it. That's just racin!

[vincesanity82]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Didn't Busch get parked this year for "rough" driving ??? It was in the pits so that made it worse but .... he did get parked.

As for DQ'd probably not but I say again that what I write is my opinion and on the crash & pass issue I'm pretty adamant about how "I" view it. I'm not forcing my view of this issue on the rest of our community ... just voicing my views.

I understand, im just pointing out, nascar has never dq'd anyone for it, so its not against the rules, in my opinion I see it as skilled driving..

[tkj24]

Originally Posted by vincesanity82

yea dale did some rubbin' but so did richard petty..its part of racing, you do what you have to win, let me ask you this, has anyone ever been DQ'd for it..

Dale was put in the penalty box at Charlotte for it for 5 laps.

[vincesanity82]

I think people have forgotten tha earnhardt was brake checked frequently, but didn’t play the game, as he would just drive through a brake checker, never backing off or changing lines. Brake checkers are usually the loudest whiners! “I got run over”. Well Earnhardt was in your rear view when you slowed down, what the hell did you expect was going to happen?

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by vincesanity82

I think people have forgotten tha earnhardt was brake checked frequently, but didn’t play the game, as he would just drive through a brake checker, never backing off or changing lines. Brake checkers are usually the loudest whiners! “I got run over”. Well Earnhardt was in your rear view when you slowed down, what the hell did you expect was going to happen?

I agree.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I hate going down this road again but I will. I said nothing about being "sensitive" What I am referring to is the crash & pass style of driving. "MY" theory or feeling, if that explains it better, is that if you need to spin someone out to pass them then you are using no skills to accomplish that feat. No matter what the crew does in the pits, the fab shop or engine builders do, they are out of the loop when ANY driver uses the crash & pass style of driving. Crash & pass involves zero team effort. It only requires driver "X" to use a method of driving that isn't actual racing. "I" am not a believer of the "do whatever it takes to win." Others believe in it and that is fine. They have their opinion and I have mine. I could come up behind the best driver NASCAR has to offer, hit him in the left rear, spin him, pass him and take the spot. Any crappy driver can do that. No skill involved, no team required.

Being aggressive can be a team effort. Be aggressive in th pits. Be aggressive at building the very best engine you can. Poor driving is aggressive but for me it is not racing. Again it is just my opinion and yes ... I'm very serious about what I view as aggressive/poor driving skills.

With all that said I still believe that Sr had many great driving abilities. Crash & pass wasn't one that I view as a "SKILL" ... at least not a good skill.

Now you've done it, LSC! This has become a Sr. Thread. Am I going to have to report you to RD?

While I'm here, I have to chime in! There's a difference. Let's take Jimmy Spencer ... Robby Gordon (I'm gonna get nailed for that one) ... and many other drivers who are just an accident waiting to happen. Let me throw in Montoya (gonna get nailed for that one as well). Some drivers think they are better than they actually are and drive recklessly. I don't believe Big E falls under that category.

Well, we can argue this until the proverbial cows come home ...







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[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by vincesanity82

I think people have forgotten tha earnhardt was brake checked frequently, but didn’t play the game, as he would just drive through a brake checker, never backing off or changing lines. Brake checkers are usually the loudest whiners! “I got run over”. Well Earnhardt was in your rear view when you slowed down, what the hell did you expect was going to happen?

I like that! Never thought of it.

Would you say that this also applies to the Stewart incident a few weeks ago? I don't have a strong opinion either way. Just curious what you think. Let me remind you that I DO NOT approve of Tony's comments post-incident.

[vincesanity82]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

I like that! Never thought of it.

Would you say that this also applies to the Stewart incident a few weeks ago? I don't have a strong opinion either way. Just curious what you think. Let me remind you that I DO NOT approve of Tony's comments post-incident.

Tony stewarts an aggressive driver aswell, but I think that incident was a combination of things, the track was slick, hamlin is new, and tony is aggressive, I dont like that tony ran his mouth especially about his teamate..but hes still a good driver..

[Racer Duck]

re: The Intimidator. did the name come because of the way Sr. drove? or because of the number of competitors cars he wrecked? by all accounts he was a nice person and a great guy off the track. what happened when he got behind the wheel to change that?

re: Smoke. did his attitude come because of his success, i.e., did he begin believing all the hype about himself? or did he always have that attitude? again, here's a supposed nice guy who changes when he gets behind the wheel.

the difference (at least as I see it): one was cold and calculating on the track and the other prone to wild emotional outbursts which don't end when he gets out of the car...

the results are the same: wrecked cars in their wake and no apparent concern about how they win.

a pity .. such great talent misused...

[vincesanity82]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

re: The Intimidator. did the name come because of the way Sr. drove? or because of the number of competitors cars he wrecked? by all accounts he was a nice person and a great guy off the track. what happened when he got behind the wheel to change that?

re: Smoke. did his attitude come because of his success, i.e., did he begin believing all the hype about himself? or did he always have that attitude? again, here's a supposed nice guy who changes when he gets behind the wheel.

the difference (at least as I see it): one was cold and calculating on the track and the other prone to wild emotional outbursts which don't end when he gets out of the car...

the results are the same: wrecked cars in their wake and no apparent concern about how they win.

a pity .. such great talent misused...

He was a nice guy off the track, but being competitve doesnt mean you want to make friends while racing..
Anyone who knows NASCAR understands that any driver who won a Championship was willing to move another car out of the way. Petty did it, Pearson did it, anyone who wants to win a Championship will do it, then and now..

[PenelopePitStop]

And what sponsor, or fan for that matter, wants a woos behind the wheel of a car on race day?

There's smart aggressive, then there's just plain stupid aggressive.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by vincesanity82

He was a nice guy off the track, but being competitve doesnt mean you want to make friends while racing..
Anyone who knows NASCAR understands that any driver who won a Championship was willing to move another car out of the way. Petty did it, Pearson did it, anyone who wants to win a Championship will do it, then and now..

you keep saying that, but I've yet to see evidence of it. where's your evidence? (and please leave Gordon and Sr. out of this .. I'm weary of that debate.)

I've seen a few races in my time .. I've seen drivers black flagged for "rough driving" and I've seen those who weren't. and I've seen drivers who chose race cleanly and fairly. the races when the drivers are racing each other cleanly and fairly are 10 times more exciting (to me .. but then I don't go to the races to see the wrecks either) than when they didn't. I'm not saying they didn't bump into each other, but it wasn't intentional.

unlike today when the ends justify the means, back in that day it didn't. in fact, the whole moral attitude of the public back then would not allow a hero to win underhandedly (except for wrestling, which is a completely different matter altogether.) that's the era LSC, Bob and myself are from. those are the foundational principals we were taught as young boys. these racers you claim "did it", for the most part were raised the same way. that makes me disbelieve the "everybody did it" mantra,'cause we didn't and we probably never personally knew anyone who did .. well, we may have known them but we didn't hang around them - they weren't people we liked.

so produce evidence that our heroes of yesterday "won at all costs" and I'll drop the matter. I'm sure you can find a few, but not many. and not popular ones.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

so produce evidence that our heroes of yesterday "won at all costs" and I'll drop the matter. I'm sure you can find a few, but not many. and not popular ones.

Oh, boy ... for fear of getting my head cut off ... here we go.

I do believe that on that ESPN's 20 Greatest NASCAR Drivers show, there was a segment on Lee Petty. The other drivers, owners, etc., who commented on Lee stated that he would bump and bang his way through the field to get the win. All the way through the field. Footage backed that up. Now, I never witnessed Lee, so I don't know how accurate that is. But, hey, if other drivers say it, respectfully I might add, I tend to believe them.

Not taking a position either way.

I think I better log off before your damning laser beam comes through my laptop, smacks me upside the head, and kills me!










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[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Oh, boy ... for fear of getting my head cut off ... here we go.

I do believe that on that ESPN's 20 Greatest NASCAR Drivers show, there was a segment on Lee Petty. The other drivers, owners, etc., who commented on Lee stated that he would bump and bang his way through the field to get the win. All the way through the field. Footage backed that up. Now, I never witnessed Lee, so I don't know how accurate that is. But, hey, if other drivers say it, respectfully I might add, I tend to believe them.

Not taking a position either way.

I think I better log off before your damning laser beam comes through my laptop, smacks me upside the head, and kills me!










http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb096&pp=ZN

I learned early on never to execute the messenger.

ok, that's 1. any more?