[Quality88]

Grumble, Toyota, Grumble

[Nevadastars]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

In all it's racing history, Toyota has never had a long learning curve. If they haven't been immediately succesful, they do whatever it takes to acquire success.

They're taking their sweet time figuring F1 out. 5 years later and they still suck.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Nevadastars

They're taking their sweet time figuring F1 out. 5 years later and they still suck.

that's 'cause they haven't figured out the art of espionage and can't seem to buy the engineers away from Ferrari.

[Jeffrey4318]

Originally Posted by King43STP

I think you've got the facts wrong, and I hope I'm right about you being a 'new' fan, less than 5 years or so. 2003 sounds about right, But Gibbs didn't leave Pontiac, it was the other way around. Pontiac Motorsports announced mid season that they would be withdrawing from NASCAR competition midway thru the season. All the Pontiac teams had to find cars to race, some went to Dodge, and others went to Ford.

Nope you are wrong. Gibbs did leave Pontiac. JGR built the new body for Pontiac in 2002 which debuted in 2003. This is when JGR found out that if they wanted to continue with Pontiac they would have to do all the work. They found no help from other teams and Nascar. They saw all the help Chevy got and decided to go back. I remember a quote from either Zippy or Makar saying that they figured with Chevy they would have fighting partners with DEI, RCR, HMS...that being part of this group would help them get the support they would need from Nascar and GM. Then it was in 2003 after Pontiac didn't have any big named teams that they decided to leave the sport. Not without a bang though, remember that awesome win by Ricky Craven in the Cal Wells Pontiac at Darlington.

also from the jayski archives:

Gibbs Racing to Chevy - it's official - may run some in 2002: Joe Gibbs made official Sunday his intention to move his two Winston Cup teams [#18 and #20] from Pontiac and Chevrolet next season. Gibbs said his teams would also test both Pontiacs and Chevrolets the remainder of this season and would utilize Chevrolets in some races later this year if the Chevrolets tested better, perhaps as early as the Brickyard 400. "Pontiac has been a great partner for us," said Gibbs. "We've been in Chevrolet before. I don't think Pontiac could have done anything more for us. We feel like starting next year we will be in a better position as a race team where we can benchmark our cars against a lot of other good cars. It's just sheer numbers for us." Gibbs' organization played a large role in the development of the 2003 Pontiac Grand Prix, which was recently approved for competition by NASCAR, and has also built several Chevrolets. The 2003 Chevrolet Monte Carlo is still being tested and has not yet been approved for competition by NASCAR. Tony Stewart, driver of Gibbs' #20 Pontiac, echoed Gibbs' statements. "I just want what everyone else has. I don't want to be beat by a rules package," Stewart said. "If I'm going to get beat, I want it to be by another driver. And I think being in a larger group, where Joe (Gibbs) can go into the NASCAR hauler and plead our case if it needs pleading, will help, because it won't just be Joe, it'll be Richard Childress, Rick Hendrick and Dale Earnhardt Inc." Pontiac officials said Sunday they still plan to field entries in NASCAR. "Pontiac will be racing in 2003. We're very excited about the new car," said Doug Duchhardt, NASCAR Group Manager for General Motors Racing. "We're working on some new teams. We're in negotiations with some teams. We're quite confident we'll have a good lineup next year to campaign for the Pontiacs."(ThatsRacin.com). Stewart will test a Pontiac and Chevy at Indy on Tues and Wed. Doug Duchardt, NASCAR group manager of GM Racing, and Joe Gibbs, owner of Joe Gibbs Racing (JGR), announced today that Gibbs' two NASCAR Winston Cup Series teams of Tony Stewart and Bobby Labonte would switch from Pontiac to Chevrolet for the 2003 Winston Cup season. JGR fielded a Chevrolet from its inception in 1992 through the 1996 Winston Cup season with Dale Jarrett and then Bobby Labonte as its drivers. It started running a Pontiac in 1997 with Labonte, and then two Pontiacs in 1999 when Stewart joined the organization as a rookie. Of the 35 Winston Cup victories and the 26 Winston Cup pole positions earned by JGR in its 10-year history, 29 wins and 20 poles have been won with a Pontiac.(Edleman PR)(7-14-2002)

Gibbs to Chevy announcement Sunday: Joe Gibbs Racing will make its long-rumored change in manufacturer official on Sunday. Gibbs will announce during a scheduled General Motors press conference at Chicagoland Speedway his two Winston Cup teams will move to the Chevrolet camp beginning with the 2003 season, sources confirmed Friday. The move by drivers Bobby Labonte and Tony Stewart to Chevrolets next season will leave just three Pontiac drivers – #14-Stacy Compton, #36-Ken Schrader and #10-Johnny Benson. Pontiac officials continue to court new teams, with their top candidate the PPI Racing [#32] team owned by Cal Wells, sources said. Gibbs ran Chevrolets when his first entered the Winston Cup series but switched to Pontiacs at the start of the 1997 season. Ironically, Gibbs’ organization has been deeply involved in the development of the 2003 Pontiac Grand Prix – last redesigned at the start of the 1996 season. NASCAR recently approved the design of the car for competition beginning next season.(ThatsRacin.com)(7-12-2002)

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Nevadastars

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner
In all it's racing history, Toyota has never had a long learning curve. If they haven't been immediately succesful, they do whatever it takes to acquire success.

They're taking their sweet time figuring F1 out. 5 years later and they still suck.

Since Toyota has been in it, I'm not sure I'd classify F1 as "racing." It's more like a Funny Looking Car Parade.

Besides, Don, you have seen enough of my post to know that I like to throw in phrases to make my position. Unless I give specifics, take anything I say at face value unless you know it to be absolutely true. I make a lot of mistakes.

[lilsexy08]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Since Toyota has been in it, I'm not sure I'd classify F1 as "racing." It's more like a Funny Looking Car Parade.

Besides, Don, you have seen enough of my post to know that I like to throw in phrases to make my position. Unless I give specifics, take anything I say at face value unless you know it to be absolutely true. I make a lot of mistakes.

Ok boys chill! LOL! Just messing with you two.