[vincesanity82]

NASCAR is considering changing the number of teams locked into each Nextel Cup race by virtue of owner points, an official source within the sanctioning body confirmed to SPEEDTV.com Saturday at Daytona International Speedway.

Currently, the top 35 teams in NASCAR Nextel Cup owner points are guaranteed starting spots at each race, regardless of where they actually qualify in the field. Teams outside the top 35 must attempt to qualify for the remaining eight spots in each Cup event.

At this weekend’s Pepsi 400, for example, 53 cars entered the race. With 35 guaranteed starting spots, 18 cars were left to contest the final eight open spots. On Friday, a total of 39 cars set qualifying times before rain cancelled qualifying. All of the seven fastest qualifiers were cars outside the top 35 in owner points, so-called “go or go home” cars.

But because rain cancelled qualifying, three of those seven fastest cars, including pole-sitter Boris Said, were eliminated from the race on the basis of points, a situation many competitors and fans considered to be grossly unfair. “It's really upsetting for those guys who were outside of the top 35, especially guys like Boris who put up such a great effort,” said Jeff Gordon, who was 30th fastest in time trials but credited with the pole on the basis of owner points after qualifying was rained out Friday night.

"That's got to be tough. Believe me, myself, I would rather we qualify and I end up 30th or 35th and let those guys do what they earned than back into a second place start like we did,” added Denny Hamlin, who was credited with second place in qualifying and will start the Pepsi 400 alongside Gordon on Row 1. “It's really not worth it to me because we know what all those other teams are going through just trying to make these races. Yeah, you definitely sympathize for them.”

When NASCAR first adopted the system of locking in the top 35 in owner points, it was when car counts were low at Cup races. The rationale of guaranteeing starting spots was to protect small, independent teams who showed up every week, but usually were not among the fastest in the field.

But with the advent of a host of new teams in 2007, including five from Toyota’s new Nextel Cup effort, fields have swelled this year, resulting in many fully sponsored teams going home on a weekly basis.

That may be about to change, the NASCAR official confirmed in an exclusive interview with SPEEDTV.com. “We’ve had ongoing discussions about changing the number of teams we lock in,” said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

The end result could be that the number of guaranteed starters would be reduced from 35 to perhaps 30 or 25. The NASCAR official stressed that no decision had been made yet, but the matter will continue to be a front-burner topic for the sanctioning body.

“The problem is getting everybody to agree on what the number should be,” the NASCAR official said. “But we have been talking about already and we’ll be talking about it again.”

SPEEDtv.com | Nextel Cup | CUP: NASCAR May Change Top-35 Rules | by Tom Jensen

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by vincesanity82

NASCAR is considering changing the number of teams locked into each Nextel Cup race by virtue of owner points, an official source within the sanctioning body confirmed to SPEEDTV.com Saturday at Daytona International Speedway.

Currently, the top 35 teams in NASCAR Nextel Cup owner points are guaranteed starting spots at each race, regardless of where they actually qualify in the field. Teams outside the top 35 must attempt to qualify for the remaining eight spots in each Cup event.

At this weekend’s Pepsi 400, for example, 53 cars entered the race. With 35 guaranteed starting spots, 18 cars were left to contest the final eight open spots. On Friday, a total of 39 cars set qualifying times before rain cancelled qualifying. All of the seven fastest qualifiers were cars outside the top 35 in owner points, so-called “go or go home” cars.

But because rain cancelled qualifying, three of those seven fastest cars, including pole-sitter Boris Said, were eliminated from the race on the basis of points, a situation many competitors and fans considered to be grossly unfair. “It's really upsetting for those guys who were outside of the top 35, especially guys like Boris who put up such a great effort,” said Jeff Gordon, who was 30th fastest in time trials but credited with the pole on the basis of owner points after qualifying was rained out Friday night.

"That's got to be tough. Believe me, myself, I would rather we qualify and I end up 30th or 35th and let those guys do what they earned than back into a second place start like we did,” added Denny Hamlin, who was credited with second place in qualifying and will start the Pepsi 400 alongside Gordon on Row 1. “It's really not worth it to me because we know what all those other teams are going through just trying to make these races. Yeah, you definitely sympathize for them.”

When NASCAR first adopted the system of locking in the top 35 in owner points, it was when car counts were low at Cup races. The rationale of guaranteeing starting spots was to protect small, independent teams who showed up every week, but usually were not among the fastest in the field.

But with the advent of a host of new teams in 2007, including five from Toyota’s new Nextel Cup effort, fields have swelled this year, resulting in many fully sponsored teams going home on a weekly basis.

That may be about to change, the NASCAR official confirmed in an exclusive interview with SPEEDTV.com. “We’ve had ongoing discussions about changing the number of teams we lock in,” said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

The end result could be that the number of guaranteed starters would be reduced from 35 to perhaps 30 or 25. The NASCAR official stressed that no decision had been made yet, but the matter will continue to be a front-burner topic for the sanctioning body.

“The problem is getting everybody to agree on what the number should be,” the NASCAR official said. “But we have been talking about already and we’ll be talking about it again.”

SPEEDtv.com | Nextel Cup | CUP: NASCAR May Change Top-35 Rules | by Tom Jensen

the problem is NASCAR doesn't have the cajones to eliminate a bad rule 'cause it'll be unpopular with some folks.

quit trying to do what's politically correct and do what's right!!!

[King43STP]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

the problem is NASCAR doesn't have the cajones to eliminate a bad rule 'cause it'll be unpopular with some folks.

quit trying to do what's politically correct and do what's right!!!

Will most likely not happen. It's all about the money now. J Gordon, J Johnson, And Jr Nations would rise in revolt when their drivers don't qualify for any one race. It doesn't matter to those fair weather fans if the fastest 43 cars don't race, all that matters to them is that their driver does. NASCAR will not let them down, even if it means NASCAR being broken up.

[Pepsi One]

Originally Posted by King43STP

Will most likely not happen. It's all about the money now. J Gordon, J Johnson, And Jr Nations would rise in revolt when their drivers don't qualify for any one race. It doesn't matter to those fair weather fans if the fastest 43 cars don't race, all that matters to them is that their driver does. NASCAR will not let them down, even if it means NASCAR being broken up.

Finally some of that logic I been talking about, what a clear headed guy! Thumbs up to you, Thumbs up!

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by King43STP

Will most likely not happen. It's all about the money now. J Gordon, J Johnson, And Jr Nations would rise in revolt when their drivers don't qualify for any one race. It doesn't matter to those fair weather fans if the fastest 43 cars don't race, all that matters to them is that their driver does. NASCAR will not let them down, even if it means NASCAR being broken up.

I think if you look at it from the competition standpoint there will be no worry that the top guns don't make the cut. The same teams, basically, that aren't making it now won't make it then.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by King43STP

Will most likely not happen. It's all about the money now. J Gordon, J Johnson, And Jr Nations would rise in revolt when their drivers don't qualify for any one race. It doesn't matter to those fair weather fans if the fastest 43 cars don't race, all that matters to them is that their driver does. NASCAR will not let them down, even if it means NASCAR being broken up.

Couldn't have said it any better, myself.

IRT the underlined phrase, I believe the actual term would be "pandering." NA$CAR has gotten pretty good at this in the past fifteen years or so. Long ago in a kingdom far, far away, NASCAR used to take into consideration the quality of good, honest, unmanipulated competition. They wanted people who loved racing to love NASCAR

Today competition is manipulated, car owners have so consistently broken established, long-standing, traditional rules (The Kiekhaeffer Rule immediately jumps to mind) that NA$CAR has now made these broken rules the status-quo. Now the only people NA$CAR is interested in are acne-encrusted adolescents whom NA$CAR envisions cultivating into a new crop of fans (Good luck on that one, Brian. If their inability to follow instructions and successfully complete even the most menial tasks is any indication, you'll be lucky if they can even find their way to a track, unless you start putting tracks in shopping malls). NA$CAR also energetically woos the twenty-somethings and thirty-somethings redneck-wannabes who have a fairly good-sized disposable income or haven't put so much on their credit cards yet to drive them in bankruptcy. This is the group who NA$CAR feels that the souvenir trailers are truly God's way of telling you that you have too much money.

Now NA$CAR wants people in need of an identity and people with multiple credit cards to love it.

But then, I'm just your basic curmudgeon, so what do I know?

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I think if you look at it from the competition standpoint there will be no worry that the top guns don't make the cut. The same teams, basically, that aren't making it now won't make it then.

I disagree. in almost every race I can think of this year, there's been at least four or five who got bumped because of the Chosen rule .. that's after the first 5 race (or what ever it was) buffer. this is the first time I remember when the pole sitter got sent home because he didn't have enough points and the 2nd place got to start from the rear because he did.

if you really want to shake up things try this: top 4x (40, 43, 48, ???) cars qualify on speed, then line up in reverse points order and impound them. make the points leaders work for their money instead of the other way around. qualifying wouldn't be nearly as important as being ready to race. those tailenders would suddenly have a shot at winning a race rather than fighting to see who's not the first one out.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by vincesanity82

“The problem is getting everybody to agree (Huh???) {"Huh" inserted only to emphasize content, not to change it}on what the number should be,” the NASCAR official said. “But we have been talking about already and we’ll be talking about it again.”

SPEEDtv.com | Nextel Cup | CUP: NASCAR May Change Top-35 Rules | by Tom Jensen

Holy leadership, Bat Man!

Statements such as this are exactly the same type of statements made by the powers in CART before Tony George split and started the IRL. Absolutely no leadership, but rather rule by committee.

NA$CAR, a hint from such unsuccessful people as Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, Teddy Roosevelt, George Patton, Lee Iacocca, and Donald Trump:

Make decisions and let the people under you live by them. YOU run the show, NOT the people who are subordinate to you!

[LSC9901]

Factor this in for me Ducky. I trust your information on this issue. If there were no chosen 35 would the setups used by the chosen 35 be any different for qualifying than they currently are ??? When there is no need to worry about getting in it allows you some flexibility that you might not incorporate otherwise. True or false ???

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Factor this in for me Ducky. I trust your information on this issue. If there were no chosen 35 would the setups used by the chosen 35 be any different for qualifying than they currently are ??? When there is no need to worry about getting in it allows you some flexibility that you might not incorporate otherwise. True or false ???

I believe that if The Chosen Rule went the way of the Edsel and New Orleans' 9th Ward, you'd see a different qualifying with a lot more excitement and uncertainty.

Impound races would see everyone with setups more aligned with racing than qualifying but at the non-impound races you'd see everyone in qualifying trim.

My reasoning is that even today, with The Chosen Rule, qualifying is close! What does it average on the cookie-cutter tracks; .8 seconds between pole and 43rd? Without The Chosen Rule, even the Tee-Shirt Kings will have to be concerned with their efforts.

I think the lower ranking teams will be a little more "out on the edge," but, as a whole, I think every car will be concerned with being on top of their game on qualifying day.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

the problem is NASCAR doesn't have the cajones to eliminate a bad rule 'cause it'll be unpopular with some folks.

quit trying to do what's politically correct and do what's right!!!

They eliminated racin back to the yellow flag and that pi$$ed a bunch of folks off. They won't let the drivers race each other and that pi$$ed people off.... Seems to me they have a knack for doin things that pi$$ or is unpopular with folks. To hell with it.... you know if they where to eliminate that rule all hell would break loose the sec that Jr, Johnson, Gordon or the other top names don't make the race.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Quality88

They eliminated racin back to the yellow flag and that pi$$ed a bunch of folks off. They won't let the drivers race each other and that pi$$ed people off.... Seems to me they have a knack for doin things that pi$$ or is unpopular with folks. To hell with it.... you know if they where to eliminate that rule all hell would break loose the sec that Jr, Johnson, Gordon or the other top names don't make the race.

you're right! that is as long as you're counting only the beer can throwers.

otherwise it'd be just like Tiger missing the cut. everybody'd be scratching their head wondering what was wrong in their camp.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I believe that if The Chosen Rule went the way of the Edsel and New Orleans' 9th Ward, you'd see a different qualifying with a lot more excitement and uncertainty.

Impound races would see everyone with setups more aligned with racing than qualifying but at the non-impound races you'd see everyone in qualifying trim.

My reasoning is that even today, with The Chosen Rule, qualifying is close! What does it average on the cookie-cutter tracks; .8 seconds between pole and 43rd? Without The Chosen Rule, even the Tee-Shirt Kings will have to be concerned with their efforts.

I think the lower ranking teams will be a little more "out on the edge," but, as a whole, I think every car will be concerned with being on top of their game on qualifying day.

Bravo! Bravo! Bravo!

excellent post. I couldn't have even approached the excellence of Bob's clear and right-on explanation.

frame this one for posterity!

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

you're right! that is as long as you're counting only the beer can throwers.

otherwise it'd be just like Tiger missing the cut. everybody'd be scratching their head wondering what was wrong in their camp.

Come on RD... beer cans don't fly unless Gordon wins the race( or is given the win), and Jr fans wouldn't even be at the track the rest of the weekend if he doesn't qualify.

Just like Tiger missing the cut.... if NA$CAR was full of pure race fans alone and some of race fans who follow a favorite driver, then I would say yes.... problem is NA$CAR is loaded with to many fad fans now.

[Racer Duck]

the folks who got pi$$ed about the "race back to the line" on yellow going away are the ones who watch the race to see the wrecks.

when NA$CAR implemented the "frozen field" they eliminated hard feelings caused by one driver not allowing anyone to try to get their lap back while others did it freely; they eliminated the crashes that ensued when 29th and 30th places were trying to gain a position in that half lap back to the line during the first quarter of the race; they eliminated the scoring inequities caused by a jumble of different place cars on different laps all trying to crowd across the line at once; they changed the yellow flag from "hammer down & get all you can" to relax, take a breather, your position is safe for the moment...

personally, I rather like the "frozen field" concecept. why not use technology to enhance the racing experience? now if they could only find that mysterious debris that caused the caution (plus identify it's source) and get the race underway in less than 10 laps (what's known in other sports as "a commercial time out")...