[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by jks812

Don't know if the rule book said that or not. And I guess you are right they are changing the rules as they go just so that they can penalize the Hendrick cars, ain't it great. Well so they can penalize the 24 and 48, since the other 2 passed.

hmmm...??? Let's see... Jeff Gordon says that HMS asked NASCAR to "scan" the cars and NASCAR refused?

John Darby said, in the radio interview I previous referenced, that if ANY team had any questions about ANY modifications to the new car all they had to do was get ahold of NASCAR at their R&D Center (which is in the same industrial complex as the majority of the Cup teams), and a decision would be made.

Darby's quote that I heard, IRT the tolerances, was to the effect of, "Since the bodies are hand crafted no two parts are absolutely identical. That is why NASCAR has allowed a 1/8" tolerance. The modifications in question on the #'s 24 and 48 were one inch or more over tolerance."

Larry Carter (McMurray's crew chief) was also interviewed last week and during the interview he was asked about the matter. He said that he tested at VIR the same day Hendrick tested and both the #'24 and 48 then had the fender mods. They was so overt that they were visible to the naked eye. Carter said he asked one of the crew member if they thought they could get by the inspection with the car and the crew member shook his head and said something to the effect of, "Who knows?"

And THAT is all I've pieced together on the matter. Now, Gordon infers that they are innocent by reason of NASCAR "refusing" to inspect the modifications. NASCAR indicates otherwise.

I don't put 100% of my faith in Darby and NASCAR, thanks to their capricious way of meting out "severe penalties."

However, as far as Jeff and his statement I have one word; predictable. In one of my previous careers I spent a lot of time around those who have run afoul of the law and were suffering the consequences. The vast majority steadfastly proclaimed their innocence and blamed their predicament on the actions of others.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

hmmm...??? Let's see... Jeff Gordon says that HMS asked NASCAR to "scan" the cars and NASCAR refused?

John Darby said, in the radio interview I previous referenced, that if ANY team had any questions about ANY modifications to the new car all they had to do was get ahold of NASCAR at their R&D Center (which is in the same industrial complex as the majority of the Cup teams), and a decision would be made.

Darby's quote that I heard, IRT the tolerances, was to the effect of, "Since the bodies are hand crafted no two parts are absolutely identical. That is why NASCAR has allowed a 1/8" tolerance. The modifications in question on the #'s 24 and 48 were one inch or more over tolerance."

Larry Carter (McMurray's crew chief) was also interviewed last week and during the interview he was asked about the matter. He said that he tested at VIR the same day Hendrick tested and both the #'24 and 48 then had the fender mods. They was so overt that they were visible to the naked eye. Carter said he asked one of the crew member if they thought they could get by the inspection with the car and the crew member shook his head and said something to the effect of, "Who knows?"

And THAT is all I've pieced together on the matter. Now, Gordon infers that they are innocent by reason of NASCAR "refusing" to inspect the modifications. NASCAR indicates otherwise.

I don't put 100% of my faith in Darby and NASCAR, thanks to their capricious way of meting out "severe penalties."

However, as far as Jeff and his statement I have one word; predictable. In one of my previous careers I spent a lot of time around those who have run afoul of the law and were suffering the consequences. The vast majority steadfastly proclaimed their innocence and blamed their predicament on the actions of others.

seems to me Jeffy was a bit "distracted" during this time frame and, as I remember his first interview TV interview after the infraction was announced, he was in a state of euphoria and said "nothing can spoil my week..." my guess is that he was later fed a talking point...

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

seems to me Jeffy was a bit "distracted" during this time frame and, as I remember his first interview TV interview after the infraction was announced, he was in a state of euphoria and said "nothing can spoil my week..." my guess is that he was later fed a talking point...

Ya think? Naaaw. Surely not by the HMS PR people?! Surely not! (And don't call me Shirley!)

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Mike24

So wait a minute, the rulebook says if you are unsure of whether your car is legal or not, you can bring it to NASCAR for a further inspection. Now all of the sudden you can't? Hmmmm, looks like NASCAR is making up the rules again.

Can you quote the section where it states that so it can be verified by someone in the know ?

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Can you quote the section where it states that so it can be verified by someone in the know ?

Can anyone here, including me, HONESTLY say that they are in possession of, or have even actually SEEN an official 2007 NASCAR Rule Book? I know that I sure can't, I can only relate what I hear voices who purport to be NASCAR official, media members, and contestants say. I believe that the odds are pretty god that the vast majority of the comments I hear and see come from people no more or less informed than I.

Two questions I would love to hear a high ranking NASCAR official address answer with some sort of easy-to-understand definitive statement, but I ain't holding my breath:

(1) Why doesn't NASCAR make its rule book available to the public, either by sale of book or publish it on the Internet?

(2) What, exactly, does it take for an entire team to be suspended for one or more races?

[wardfan]

they probably think us dumb rednecks can't read so we don't need to see the rulebook.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Can you quote the section where it states that so it can be verified by someone in the know ?

It has been in the news all week. Gordon and a few others have mentioned this.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by wardfan

they probably think us dumb rednecks can't read so we don't need to see the rulebook.

Me thinks it's because they would get alot more nasty grams from the fans if the fans actually knew the rules and called them out on it when they didn't penalize or penalized wrongly. I'm sure they get enough flack from the fans without us callin them out on the rest of their BS.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Mike24

It has been in the news all week. Gordon and a few others have mentioned this.

And there in lies my main problem. You don't have a rule book, I don't and Bob has no idea whats in the rule book so just how does the media know what is right or wrong. Do they have access to this mystical book of rules ?? If they did we'd all know what the rules are.

I'm sorry but I have zero faith in the media. When they tell me something I want to see where it is verified. All to often they tell the truth that they want us to hear and all to often people perpetuate that message into the truth ... as they believe it.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Mike24

It has been in the news all week. Gordon and a few others have mentioned this.

My understanding si that the specific rule that's been bandied about all week comes from the rules IRT the old car, not the section devoted to the new car.

[Nevadastars]

This Na$car rulebook thing is funny. I was on a Modified race team for years that raced on Nascar sanctioned tracks at the local level. Every year we paid our (outrageous) dues and got a rulebook. But those rulebooks did not include the Busch, Truck and Cup series. We asked how to get a rule book for those series, and never got a straight answer. I think our lack of big $$$ may have had something to do with it.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Nevadastars

This Na$car rulebook thing is funny. I was on a Modified race team for years that raced on Nascar sanctioned tracks at the local level. Every year we paid our (outrageous) dues and got a rulebook. But those rulebooks did not include the Busch, Truck and Cup series. We asked how to get a rule book for those series, and never got a straight answer. I think our lack of big $$$ may have had something to do with it.

NA$CAR has a "unique" system setup for their series:

• for any series, you need a license whether you are a crewman, driver or owner in order to participate
• with each license comes a copy of the rulebook for that series
• there is no single rulebook that covers multiple series
• in Cup, there are two rulebooks: 1 for COT and 1 for "before COT"
• when the license is renewed, you get a new rulebook (this year in CUP you got 2, next year it'll be back to 1 - COT)
• each class sits in a hierarchy, Cup on top and weekly racing series on the bottom
• your license allows you to participate in your series plus those that are "lesser" than yours
• just because you are allowed to participate in a "lesser" series doesn't mean you get a rulebook for that series - ya still have to buy a license to get a rulebook!