[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

i think this guy has hit on something. strip the win bonus if they're in the Chase. or dock them say, 100 Chase points (I like that even better, it puts them in a hole like Mikey was after Daytona.) So, even if they make the chase, they're seeded last. makes them work twice as hard to get half as much.

Agreed. I have much more respect for a driver and/or team who "works" their way to the Chase and/or Championship, regardless of who they are, than those who sail into it.

As I've said, I really don't like this "Chase" thing anyway. NASCAR's attempt to bring the "Super Bowl" to the end of the Cup season has failed miserably. They expected viewership to increase once the field was locked, but that hasn't been the case.

[Team Yates]

Hendrick Motorsports Responds to Penalties: Car owner Rick Hendrick responded to NASCAR sanctions announced today involving the #24 and #48 Nextel Cup Series teams of Hendrick Motorsports. "We are disappointed in NASCAR's decision and feel the penalties are excessive," Hendrick said. "Right now, all of our options are being evaluated, including our personnel situation and a possible appeal to the National Stock Car Racing Commission. We'll take some time to decide on a direction and make an announcement regarding our plans for New Hampshire later in the week."(Hendrick Motorsports PR)(6-26-2007)

[jks812]

Originally Posted by Team Yates

Hendrick Motorsports Responds to Penalties: Car owner Rick Hendrick responded to NASCAR sanctions announced today involving the #24 and #48 Nextel Cup Series teams of Hendrick Motorsports. "We are disappointed in NASCAR's decision and feel the penalties are excessive," Hendrick said. "Right now, all of our options are being evaluated, including our personnel situation and a possible appeal to the National Stock Car Racing Commission. We'll take some time to decide on a direction and make an announcement regarding our plans for New Hampshire later in the week."(Hendrick Motorsports PR)(6-26-2007)

What he's really saying is, we're disappointed and shocked that Nascar finally decided to really penalize us for our regular cheating that Chad does. We just might appeal it, that way the appeal board can do what Nascar really wanted to do, which is knock our penalties back to the little slap on the wrist that we always get. That way it'll be the appeal board that folks can blame for being easy on us and nobody can be mad at Nascar.

[tkj24]

I don't remember anyone ever appealing a penalty and getting it reduced. Who do you appeal to. More Nascar? What's the point they are going to stick together.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by jks812

What he's really saying is, we're disappointed and shocked that Nascar finally decided to really penalize us for our regular cheating that Chad does. We just might appeal it, that way the appeal board can do what Nascar really wanted to do, which is knock our penalties back to the little slap on the wrist that we always get. That way it'll be the appeal board that folks can blame for being easy on us and nobody can be mad at Nascar.

exactly!

Originally Posted by tkj24

I don't remember anyone ever appealing a penalty and getting it reduced. Who do you appeal to. More Nascar? What's the point they are going to stick together.

that's the problem when it's a privately held corporation. the only recourse is get the owners to overrule the executives. in this case, the appeals board are not owners... saw their names in the news release on Everham's appeal earlier this year, but didn't recognize any of them at the time.

and you're right. they don't generally overrule a penalty. you have to be able to explicitly prove you're innocent and no rule was broken. in this case the "don't change anything on the COT" rule they all received verbally was broken.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

and you're right. they don't generally overrule a penalty. you have to be able to explicitly prove you're innocent and no rule was broken. in this case the "don't change anything on the COT" rule they all received verbally was broken.

Yup! Hendrick can appeal all he wants. Waste of time as far as I can see. They cheated, they got caught. What's to appeal? The penalty? Same as everyone elses.

Hendrick should just put his tail between his legs and go "you know what" in the corner!

[Mike24]

Yes! Hendrick needs to appeal the penalty. It's about time to exploit how NASCAR is making up the rules as they go with the COT, which I think Hendrick already has. Anyways I don't care what the rulebook says, NASCAR never said the teams couldn't work on the fenders of the template. Even Jimmy Spencer said it's about time NASCAR owns up to it's mistakes instead of blaming it on the teams. What a shocker, NASCAR making up the rules as they go!

[SpaceCadet]

Originally Posted by Mike24

Yes! Hendrick needs to appeal the penalty. It's about time to exploit how NASCAR is making up the rules as they go with the COT, which I think Hendrick already has. Anyways I don't care what the rulebook says, NASCAR never said the teams couldn't work on the fenders of the template. Even Jimmy Spencer said it's about time NASCAR owns up to it's mistakes instead of blaming it on the teams. What a shocker, NASCAR making up the rules as they go!

I hate to be the bearer of bad news because I have been on the "show me the rule" bandwagon. The rule is very specific. Once I read it I really can't see how Hendrick has a leg to stand on. I can't remember the exact wording, but it has been posted in other threads. This was not gray area. It couldn't be more clear. HMS screwed up.

[LSC9901]

So Mike are you saying that HMS was not treated fairly ?

Since we cannot see the rule book and other formal communications I don't know for sure that there is anything written about no changes to the car. From what I have gathered here the rule (?) they are refering to is from the regular cars. That being that you cannot make changes to the fender. I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but in this case if you are claiming unfair treatment then can you quote some source that says they did not circumvent the rules.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

I hate to be the bearer of bad news because I have been on the "show me the rule" bandwagon. The rule is very specific. Once I read it I really can't see how Hendrick has a leg to stand on. I can't remember the exact wording, but it has been posted in other threads. This was not gray area. It couldn't be more clear. HMS screwed up.

I must have missed it. The rulebook does say you can't edit the templates, but it never said you can't edit the fenders of the car, until NASCAR has came out and verbally said it, after the 24 and 48's "violations".

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

So Mike are you saying that HMS was not treated fairly ?

Since we cannot see the rule book and other formal communications I don't know for sure that there is anything written about no changes to the car. From what I have gathered here the rule (?) they are refering to is from the regular cars. That being that you cannot make changes to the fender. I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but in this case if you are claiming unfair treatment then can you quote some source that says they did not circumvent the rules.

From what I've gathered, in the rulebook NASCAR states you can't edit the templates in any way shape or form. But, it does NOT say you can't edit fenders with the COT. Jimmy Spencer was one of the first ones to come out and say this. I guess NASCAR added the rule after they found something they didn't like.

[SpaceCadet]

Originally Posted by Mike24

I must have missed it. The rulebook does say you can't edit the templates, but it never said you can't edit the fenders of the car, until NASCAR has came out and verbally said it, after the 24 and 48's "violations".

It specifically addresses the fenders in the rule book. No bending or cutting the fenders or altering them in any way without permission from the Big Cheese. I'm sure somebody will find it and post it for you before I do. A computer wiz I'm not. But the rule is clear, painfully clear if you're Rick Hendrick.

[jks812]

Originally Posted by Mike24

But, it does NOT say you can't edit fenders with the COT.

Both cars -- the No. 24 driven by Jeff Gordon and the No. 48 driven by Jimmie Johnson -- were found to be in violation of Sections 12-4-A (actions detrimental to stock car racing); 12-4-Q (car, car parts, components and/or equipment used do not conform to NASCAR rules); 20-2.1E (parts or components of the car not previously approved by NASCAR that have been installed or modified to enhance aerodynamic performance will not be permitted); and 20-2H (fenders may not be cut or altered except for wheel or tire clearance which must be approved by the Series Director) of the 2007 NASCAR rule book. The violations were found during the initial inspection process last Friday.


I don't know if this is specifically for the COT, but maybe it goes for both cars. If you can't do it on one why would they think they could on the other one?

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by jks812

20-2H (fenders may not be cut or altered except for wheel or tire clearance which must be approved by the Series Director) of the 2007 NASCAR rule book. The violations were found during the initial inspection process last Friday.


I don't know if this is specifically for the COT, but maybe it goes for both cars.

"The fenders can not be cut". But they didn't cut the fenders, they edited them within the template. But ok

You can edit the fenders with the old car.

[jks812]

Originally Posted by jks812

and 20-2H (fenders may not be cut or altered except for wheel or tire clearance which must be approved by the Series Director) of the 2007 NASCAR rule book.

I guess altered means don't change it or edit it or whatever they want to call it.