[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

In the words of DW, "Splain yourself."

If he's not expecting any less than I am ... then he is in for a mild heart attack. Sit out a race and send the crew chief home ... indefinitely.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

If he's not expecting any less than I am ... then he is in for a mild heart attack. Sit out a race and send the crew chief home ... indefinitely.

That would end Knausing..... for a minute

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

If he's not expecting any less than I am ... then he is in for a mild heart attack. Sit out a race and send the crew chief home ... indefinitely.

I'm not surprised that Jeffey expects special treatment. At least that's the way I interpreted it.

Based on Jr., Mikey, and Busch's fines/penalties this year, this better be stern or folks will be rioting in the streets!

I wonder if the fans will be throwing beer cans at Loudon Sunday ...

[jks812]

Nascar backed themselves into a corner when they said any infraction to the COT would get a severe penalty. They are probably now trying to figure out how to get out of this without having to punish the Hendrick teams. Would not surprise me if they agree with Jeff, that missing 1 practice and not getting to qualify was punishment enough.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by jks812

Nascar backed themselves into a corner when they said any infraction to the COT would get a severe penalty. They are probably now trying to figure out how to get out of this without having to punish the Hendrick teams. Would not surprise me if they agree with Jeff, that missing 1 practice and not getting to qualify was punishment enough.

Oh, my. I hope you're wrong. If J&J weren't in the top 35, not getting to qualify would be one thing, but due to this new stupid rule, they were guaranteed a spot. This is going to get interesting ...

Jeffey Poo and Johnson are already hated by some. Not punishing them in some way will only add fuel to the fire. Actually, I'm sad to see what NASCAR has become.

The Loudon fans boo'd Gordon and Johnson so loud that it actually made my heart skip a beat. If appropriate fines/penalties are not imposed, I will probably hear the crowd on Sunday from my home!

How did NASCAR become so controversial? Stewart was berated for his comments, but how far off was he?

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by jks812

Nascar backed themselves into a corner when they said any infraction to the COT would get a severe penalty. They are probably now trying to figure out how to get out of this without having to punish the Hendrick teams. Would not surprise me if they agree with Jeff, that missing 1 practice and not getting to qualify was punishment enough.

Like I said... they better back up what they said or I forsee tv ratings droppin as well as attendance droppin.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Quality88

Like I said... they better back up what they said or I forsee tv ratings droppin as well as attendance droppin.

That's right, Q. I don't expect NASCAR to hang Jeffey or Johnson, or to make an example out of them, but a fair penalty is required.

I already don't follow NASCAR as closely as I used to (miss my Dale, among other good ol' boys), but still enjoy the sport. This will be the defining moment for me.

Shame that a governing body can have such an impact. I don't think the talent has faded, but the rules now seem to apply to some, but not others. Not the drivers' fault. Even some of the penalties for speeding on pit road seem to have a grey area.

Strange days, indeed ...

[SpaceCadet]

Originally Posted by jks812

Added Kyle Petty: "You have a rule book, and we have rules. NASCAR has been adamant about the COT. For 24 months, they've been adamant about the COT: 'Don't mess with us on this.' I think we've already seen it when a mistake was made by the 8 car. We saw how drastic they approached a mistake, so anytime you get into something they deem intentional, it's going to be big."

If for 24 months they have been told not to mess with it, then they should ALL ( DEI also) know not to mess with it.

Ok, I'm back to my original question. A commentator, driver, whomever, can say all they want "they say don't mess with the COT". How specific is that rule? What does it say? Is it a CYA rule, as I asked before? I am not convinced that the infamous invisible rule book is not part of the problem. Everyone talks in such generic terms. What are the specifics of the rule concerning this infraction? No one knows but NASCAR. The Gordon/HMS haters are having a field day over this, and I get that. If one side can be ultra vague about this, why not the other? I still go back to the fact that the cars fit the template. What does it say in the rulebook about that? The cars were absolutely altered on purpose. Where is the specific rule addressing this exact infraction? My guess is that the rule is the generic CYA "detrimental to the sport" crap, allowing the bold and or stupid to push the envelope. What is NASCAR's big friggin' secret about these written rules? And why is this infraction coming about at such an opportune time for NASCAR? I think HMS is going to get hammered because NASCAR is going to make an example of them. They're sure getting a lot of press over this, ya think? In a word, brilliant.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

Ok, I'm back to my original question. A commentator, driver, whomever, can say all they want "they say don't mess with the COT". How specific is that rule? What does it say? Is it a CYA rule, as I asked before? I am not convinced that the infamous invisible rule book is not part of the problem. Everyone talks in such generic terms. What are the specifics of the rule concerning this infraction? No one knows but NASCAR. The Gordon/HMS haters are having a field day over this, and I get that. If one side can be ultra vague about this, why not the other? I still go back to the fact that the cars fit the template. What does it say in the rulebook about that? The cars were absolutely altered on purpose. Where is the specific rule addressing this exact infraction? My guess is that the rule is the generic CYA "detrimental to the sport" crap, allowing the bold and or stupid to push the envelope. What is NASCAR's big friggin' secret about these written rules? And why is this infraction coming about at such an opportune time for NASCAR? I think HMS is going to get hammered because NASCAR is going to make an example of them. They're sure getting a lot of press over this, ya think? In a word, brilliant.

Here's the reason we are havin such a field day.... Hendrick cars(namely a$$hole 1 and 2) altered a car they where told(along with everyone else in NA$CAR) not to mess with period. What I take this to mean is.... it doesn't matter that it fit the template.... they altered(screwed with it) and now they will pay the price. DEI made a mistake and got slammed for it. Hendrick crew chiefs deliberately(and Knaus admitted it) altered it. NA$CAR said no messing with it and that meant no messin with it. At this point I think they are trying(and I stress trying) to take away the grey area excuse altogether.

[SpaceCadet]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

I don't expect NASCAR to hang Jeffey or Johnson, or to make an example out of them, but a fair penalty is required.

You may not expect it, but isn't that what you want to see happen? Let's face it, the Gordon haters want him to go down in the worst way. And that's why I think NASCAR, the ultimate manipulator, is going to pound the crap out of HMS. I'll lay money that the punishment will exceed the crime, perhaps even in the eyes of the anti-HMS crowd. First it's Jr.'s team cheating, then it's Jr. himself, all the Nextel/Cingular/AT&T stuff, and now the Golden Boys get tarnished. NASCAR is getting exactly what it wants right now, and they will capitalize. Chad Knause should be in deep poopie over this, and it's going to be tough to penalize him too severely. But Gordo? NASCAR is licking it's chops at the controversy.

[SpaceCadet]

Originally Posted by Quality88

Here's the reason we are havin such a field day.... Hendrick cars(namely a$$hole 1 and 2) altered a car they where told(along with everyone else in NA$CAR) not to mess with period. What I take this to mean is.... it doesn't matter that it fit the template.... they altered(screwed with it) and now they will pay the price. DEI made a mistake and got slammed for it. Hendrick crew chiefs deliberately(and Knaus admitted it) altered it. NA$CAR said no messing with it and that meant no messin with it. At this point I think they are trying(and I stress trying) to take away the grey area excuse altogether.

Ok, I have an IQ above that of a houseplant. But again, whether it concerns Jr., Gordo, Joe Bassadablo, they can't change the grey area after the infraction. It the area is grey, it's grey. Again, nobody knows! It's all hearsay from what I can see. I used to write tech specs for the Navy. Show me the rule. Show me that it is not grey area. I don't care that the infraction was done by HMS. For me, this is not about who the penalties are being assessed to, but why this happened at all if NASCAR is claiming to be so super specific about this car. "Don't mess with the car" is not specific. I'm beginning to think I'm the only one who doesn't want to take NASCAR's word as gospel - for anything!

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

You may not expect it, but isn't that what you want to see happen? Let's face it, the Gordon haters want him to go down in the worst way. And that's why I think NASCAR, the ultimate manipulator, is going to pound the crap out of HMS. I'll lay money that the punishment will exceed the crime, perhaps even in the eyes of the anti-HMS crowd. First it's Jr.'s team cheating, then it's Jr. himself, all the Nextel/Cingular/AT&T stuff, and now the Golden Boys get tarnished. NASCAR is getting exactly what it wants right now, and they will capitalize. Chad Knause should be in deep poopie over this, and it's going to be tough to penalize him too severely. But Gordo? NASCAR is licking it's chops at the controversy.

Here's where I disagree.... Hendrick cars have been the ones to get things their way(not all the time) Ex. DEGA race this past April, Pocono. NA$CAR has to do something to them because they made a statement before hand, have been following through with it, and now the people that usually get favorible calls are caught. They either follow through and make a massive viewing audience think that they are not as biased as everyone thought... or they could jeopardize the sport by pi$$ing the masses off by showing favortism to Hendrick cars.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

Ok, I have an IQ above that of a houseplant. But again, whether it concerns Jr., Gordo, Joe Bassadablo, they can't change the grey area after the infraction. It the area is grey, it's grey. Again, nobody knows! It's all hearsay from what I can see. I used to write tech specs for the Navy. Show me the rule. Show me that it is not grey area. I don't care that the infraction was done by HMS. For me, this is not about who the penalties are being assessed to, but why this happened at all if NASCAR is claiming to be so super specific about this car. "Don't mess with the car" is not specific. I'm beginning to think I'm the only one who doesn't want to take NASCAR's word as gospel - for anything!

I can see your point, and I know about cut and clear rules workin for the damn UPS at one point. Perhaps you would like to see them say no alterations unless approve by NA$CAR before hand? To me... if they say Don't mess with it, then don't. Grey area or not. Knaus is a sneaky a$$... he thought he could try and make an alteration that didn't cause the template to be broken, and still get an advantage. It didn't work.

[King43STP]

I found this today and found it interesting.
Jun 25, 6:04 PM (ET)

By JENNA FRYERWhen six crew members were thrown out of the Daytona 500 for cheating it was suggested that NASCAR start suspending drivers as part of the penalty process.
Jimmie Johnson was aghast at the idea.
The defending Nextel Cup champion said he has no idea what crew chief Chad Knaus does while building his race cars. And even if Johnson were privy to such information, he has no control in how his Chevrolets are constructed.
Johnson's defense is at the very core of why NASCAR should start suspending its drivers. Benching the star of the team would force him to take responsibility for his crew.
Nothing else is working.
Johnson and teammate Jeff Gordon both showed up in Sonoma, Calif., with cars that failed initial inspection, and NASCAR refused to let them on the track Friday. But they still were allowed to race Sunday, and crew chiefs Knaus and Steve Letarte were both on site to guide their drivers to decent finishes. Gordon finished seventh and Johnson 17th.
Now they wait and wonder what further punishment NASCAR will impose. Penalties are traditionally issued on Tuesdays.
"All of us are blown away and we don't know what's coming next," Gordon said. "We are at the mercy of NASCAR and I hope they are light on us, but who knows?"
That there's any doubt in what the penalties will be stems from decades of inconsistency when it comes to enforcing the rules and doling out the punishment.
Cheating has long been celebrated as a quaint piece of NASCAR culture that even has its own slogan - "If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin."' There's long been a blurry territory of what is flagrant, what is working the margins of the rule book and what is a simple mistake.
Hendrick Motorsports is using that defense following this latest infraction, with team owner Rick Hendrick contending his crew chiefs were working within a "gray area" of the rule book.
"I don't necessarily say they bent the rules - I think they thought they were working inside an area in which they could," Hendrick said. "It's going to be tough, as we go forward, on what's intentional and what's accidental and how they handle it, so you're definitely going to have to show up with these things measured up."
Here's the issue the Hendrick guys aren't understanding: There is no "gray area" anymore.
NASCAR is pretty serious about its new Car of Tomorrow, and has made it clear it won't tolerate any alterations in its design. In fact, series officials distributed a memo before the car debuted in March that outlined the penalties teams would be subjected to if they were caught messing with the COT.
So it was no surprise to anyone, Hendrick teams included, when Dale Earnhardt Jr. was docked 100 points and crew chief Tony Eury Jr. was suspended six weeks and fined $100,000 when their COT failed a May inspection.
The Hendrick teams most likely will get the same punishment - although some argue Knaus' past infractions should warrant a much stiffer penalty because anything short of what Earnhardt and Eury received would seem unfair.
Problem is, it's probably not enough to even dent the Hendrick juggernaut.
Even after a 100-point penalty, Gordon would still be leading the Nextel Cup standings by 171 points. Johnson would drop from third to fifth. The monetary fines are irrelevant, and Hendrick proved last year it can overcome the absence of a crew chief when Johnson won twice during Knaus' four-race suspension.
And, don't think for a minute that Knaus and Letarte won't spend their free weekends back at the Hendrick compound making sure their program is locked and loaded for when the Chase for the championship begins in September.
What kind of message would it send if Knaus and Letarte, who have combined to win eight races this season, return after a suspension more dominant than they already are?
If NASCAR is serious about taking a stand, and chairman Brian France said Sunday officials "have to lay down the law," then it's time to suspend the driver.
The driver is the most high-profile member of the team, and if he's at risk for going home, chances are he'd keep a very close eye on those charged with building his car.
And the fans don't care if Knaus or Eury or any other crew chief isn't on top of the pit box come race day. But they certainly wouldn't be pleased if Earnhardt, Johnson and Gordon weren't on the track.
NASCAR believes suspending drivers punishes the fans. Even better, because it would create more pressure on the driver to keep his team from breaking the rules.
There's no gray anymore, not according to NASCAR, which insists it's all black and white these days. But that message will never be delivered until NASCAR proves it with a penalty system that officially frightens its competitors.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

I'm beginning to think I'm the only one who doesn't want to take NASCAR's word as gospel - for anything!

Oh, no, Space. You're not alone with that thought.