[McMurray26]

let me preface this post by saying i hate Gordon with every fiber of my being...

But I do not understand this whole fabricated rivalry between Junior and Gordon. I like Jr. alright, he seems like a cool guy. But I also feel he is one of the most over-rated people in the sport ever. I mean we all know why he has the following he does. And the reason he was such a big "free-agent" was because strictly a dollars thing, not a thing to do with results. Which brings me to point of this whole "rivalry." It is not a rivalry at all, ask both of them they will tell you that, as well. I understand that Gordon does not really fit the profile of most Junior fans and I understand why they don't like him. But this "rivalry" is stuck in the heads of Junior fans. I mean do you really hear a lot of Gordon fans talk about how much they hate Junior? No and that is because on the track Junior is really an after thought to Gordon. Seriously as much as this pains me Junior is not on Gordon's level.

Level A
Gordon
Stewart
Kenseth
Johnson

Level B
Kyle Busch
Kurt Busch
Burton
Harvick
Earnhardt
Hamlin

Level C
everyone else

[MIKE28]

Originally Posted by McMurray26

let me preface this post by saying i hate Gordon with every fiber of my being...

But I do not understand this whole fabricated rivalry between Junior and Gordon. I like Jr. alright, he seems like a cool guy. But I also feel he is one of the most over-rated people in the sport ever. I mean we all know why he has the following he does. And the reason he was such a big "free-agent" was because strictly a dollars thing, not a thing to do with results. Which brings me to point of this whole "rivalry." It is not a rivalry at all, ask both of them they will tell you that, as well. I understand that Gordon does not really fit the profile of most Junior fans and I understand why they don't like him. But this "rivalry" is stuck in the heads of Junior fans. I mean do you really hear a lot of Gordon fans talk about how much they hate Junior? No and that is because on the track Junior is really an after thought to Gordon. Seriously as much as this pains me Junior is not on Gordon's level.

Level A
Gordon
Stewart
Kenseth
Johnson

Level B
Kyle Busch
Kurt Busch
Burton
Harvick
Earnhardt
Hamlin

Level C
everyone else

JR cant hold a candle to Gordon right now. JR has an opportunity now to maybe come up to Gordons level and turn it into something, but not a rivalry. The 3 and 24 was a rivalry cause they were in to diffrent organizations fighting for wins and championships. How can it be a rivalry if you drive for the same team and share info? How do we even know that it is gonna JR is gonna win alot of races and championships? The grass might not be greener on the other side.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by McMurray26

let me preface this post by saying i hate Gordon with every fiber of my being...

But I do not understand this whole fabricated rivalry between Junior and Gordon. I like Jr. alright, he seems like a cool guy. But I also feel he is one of the most over-rated people in the sport ever. I mean we all know why he has the following he does. And the reason he was such a big "free-agent" was because strictly a dollars thing, not a thing to do with results. Which brings me to point of this whole "rivalry." It is not a rivalry at all, ask both of them they will tell you that, as well. I understand that Gordon does not really fit the profile of most Junior fans and I understand why they don't like him. But this "rivalry" is stuck in the heads of Junior fans. I mean do you really hear a lot of Gordon fans talk about how much they hate Junior? No and that is because on the track Junior is really an after thought to Gordon. Seriously as much as this pains me Junior is not on Gordon's level.

Level A
Gordon
Stewart
Kenseth
Johnson

Level B
Kyle Busch
Kurt Busch
Burton
Harvick
Earnhardt
Hamlin

Level C
everyone else

Did I just read this?! Someone that likes Jr thinks he's over-rated?!

But I agree with you. People can believe what they want, but Jr is not on Gordon's level. But we also need to remember Jr has not been in good equipment. Not saying DEI doesn't have good equipment, but compare it to HMS, RCR, and Gibbs, they are behind. We will see Jr's true talent when he gets in a HMS ride in 2008. As regard to a rivalry, there will never be a rivalry until Jr proves he can run up front with Gordon on a consistent basis.

[LSC9901]

There will be no rivalry between them at all. Look around and tell me if there is one with JJ, Casey or Kyle ??? Of course not. They are all on the same team.

Mike we've had the over rated and over hyped conversation before. I thought you agreed that is was more a case of over hyped by the media ??? Am I incorrect or did you change your mind again ? Stats say he is above average

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

There will be no rivalry between them at all. Look around and tell me if there is one with JJ, Casey or Kyle ??? Of course not. They are all on the same team.

Mike we've had the over rated and over hyped conversation before. I thought you agreed that is was more a case of over hyped by the media ??? Am I incorrect or did you change your mind again ? Stats say he is above average

ok ok... to reword, he is over-hyped by the media.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Mike24

ok ok... to reword, he is over-hyped by the media.

Thanks Mike ... now that wasn't to difficult was it ???

[Jeffrey4318]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

There will be no rivalry between them at all. Look around and tell me if there is one with JJ, Casey or Kyle ??? Of course not. They are all on the same team.

Mike we've had the over rated and over hyped conversation before. I thought you agreed that is was more a case of over hyped by the media ??? Am I incorrect or did you change your mind again ? Stats say he is above average

What is the difference? Until he wins Championships I'd say he is overrated. Media and fans put him in the Gordon, Stewart, and Johnson level. So I'd say he is over hyped and over rated. Is he good? Yes, history shows that he is good, but not great.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey4318

What is the difference? Until he wins Championships I'd say he is overrated. Media and fans put him in the Gordon, Stewart, and Johnson level. So I'd say he is over hyped and over rated. Is he good? Yes, history shows that he is good, but not great.

I did not say he was/is great. I agree that he is good. Fame in part comes from what the media delivers to us. Look up his record and compare him to drivers who have the same amount of years as he does and see what you find. Compare him to veteran drivers at that point in their careers. Mark Martin has driven for 20 years in the cup series and has 35 wins. Jr is in his 7th year an has 17 wins. Granted these are just numbers and I can make numbers do what ever I want. What exactly is your definition of over rated ?

Before you get to the point where you feel I am a Jr fan I'll tell you I am not a fan of any driver in particular. I'm a race fan. There are drivers I like and some I don't but I do not cheer for any one driver.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey4318

What is the difference? Until he wins Championships I'd say he is overrated. Media and fans put him in the Gordon, Stewart, and Johnson level. So I'd say he is over hyped and over rated. Is he good? Yes, history shows that he is good, but not great.

By that definition, the following are the "A" team and the rest are "B" teamers:

• Johnson
• Stewart
• Kurt Busch
• Kenseth
• Jeff Gordon
• Bobby Labonte
• Dale Jarrett
• Terry Labonte
• Bill Elliott

All active drivers, all Cup Champions.

Of course the argument could be made that those who have made the Chase but not garnered a championship are the "B" team, and the rest are "also-rans".....

[LSC9901]

RATED : to estimate the normal capacity or power of

Over rated would be an excessive degree of the above. The all important question is who is setting the value that you speak of ? I don't believe that you'll hear Jr, or any other driver, say that he is better than his stats show. Jr is saying that he feels he would like better equipment and will hopefully do better. Is there a driver that wouldn't want better equipment ? The rating factor comes from a media and fan base that are either all for or all against any one driver. The hype that makes far to many people complain about this "over rated" perception is driven by the media. The media isn't interested in stories that aren't glitzy. Media means money and that is what drives these "over rated" issues.

[SpaceCadet]

Originally Posted by McMurray26

I understand that Gordon does not really fit the profile of most Junior fans and I understand why they don't like him. But this "rivalry" is stuck in the heads of Junior fans. I mean do you really hear a lot of Gordon fans talk about how much they hate Junior? No and that is because on the track Junior is really an after thought to Gordon. Seriously as much as this pains me Junior is not on Gordon's level.

I'm glad somebody understands why Jr. fans hate Gordon with such a vengence, because I don't get it. Sr. and Gordon were certainly not enemies, and my understanding is that Jr. and Gordon are good friends. I wish someone could enlighten me as to why this intense, almost scary, absolute mega hatred of Gordon by so many Jr. fans exists. Lots of people have drivers they're not crazy about but don't seem to go over the top. I don't get it.

I think there may be no rivalry off the track between Jr. and Gordon, but as Jr. adjusts to the team and the cars, I think you'll see a three way rivalry on the track, and eventually four way as Mears improves. You can't win 17 races and have no skills. When all things are clicking for Jr. and he's having a good day, I think you will definately see a rivalry on the track. It already exists between Gordon and Johnson. The ultimate desire to win will rear it's head and the JG/Jr./JJ and eventually CM rivalry will be in full swing - on the track. Off the track, I think all will be well. I agree with the mindset that Jr. will not go down in history as a driver of Gordon's caliber, or his father's for that matter. What I like about Jr. is his belief in himself. He believes he will give Gordon and every other top notch driver a run for his money. That confidence and great cars will give Jr. a good chance at a championship(s).

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by McMurray26

I understand that Gordon does not really fit the profile of most Junior fans and I understand why they don't like him. But this "rivalry" is stuck in the heads of Junior fans. I mean do you really hear a lot of Gordon fans talk about how much they hate Junior? No and that is because on the track Junior is really an after thought to Gordon. Seriously as much as this pains me Junior is not on Gordon's level.

Finally ... someone who has the answer. Can you please explain it.