[Racer Duck]

I keep seeing this thing mentioned, but didn't know until I did a little research what it is.

Hendrick Motorsports, Joe Gibbs Racing, Penske Racing and Richard Childress Racing have had seven-post shakers at their shops for two years or more, and upstart Ginn Racing also has one, owner Jack Roush of Roush Fenway Racing recently lamented the fact that he only now is preparing to install one. And lesser-funded teams such as Petty Enterprises, Chip Ganassi Racing and Evernham Motorsports are left wondering what if.

They all believe it's what you have to have to be at the top...right now.

Check it out at: NASCAR.COM - Seven-post shakers stir up Cup Series' team hierarchy - Jun 1, 2007, GM - Racing Technology Story 1 and https://secure.hosting.vt.edu/www.vt...005&itemno=894

[Mike24]

If the lower teams want to end the domination of HMS, Gibbs, and RCR, they need to work harder, plain and simple. The top tier teams were one of the lower teams at one point, but they worked and worked until they became one of the elite teams. That's what these other lower funded teams need to do instead of whining to NASCAR.

[JG24]

Originally Posted by Mike24

If the lower teams want to end the domination of HMS, Gibbs, and RCR, they need to work harder, plain and simple. The top tier teams were one of the lower teams at one point, but they worked and worked until they became one of the elite teams. That's what these other lower funded teams need to do instead of whining to NASCAR.

Agree, they need to work harder to get better resources to compete at a competitive level. HMS is an example of putting money and time and dedication into there program and now they are the class of the field.

[LSC9901]

One item in this story that really caught my attention was the fact that a 5 car organization is behind the ball. They were behind the ball in the testing at different tracks with a different brand of tires ???? Sounds like Jack Rousch is building his excuses for not getting another championship.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

One item in this story that really caught my attention was the fact that a 5 car organization is behind the ball. They were behind the ball in the testing at different tracks with a different brand of tires ???? Sounds like Jack Rousch is building his excuses for not getting another championship.

ya just don't hide a million dollar machine like a 7-post rig .. and there's not many racin' secrets (except what the crew chief and engine guy keep locked away in their notes) that don't see the light of day purty quick. most teams you can take a tour of their facility .. if you know what you're looking for, you can find it! and there's plenty of shop guys that move from team to team during the year and they know what kind of equipment the teams have and don't owe any allegiance to one team over the one they're currently with...

methinks Jack & Co. were too busy pursuing the Red Sox bucks to think about next season... now it's biting them in the you know what!!!

[Nevadastars]

Originally Posted by Mike24

If the lower teams want to end the domination of HMS, Gibbs, and RCR, they need to work harder, plain and simple.

I'm sure they work just as hard as the more heavily funded teams, they just dont have the resources, also known as money.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

ya just don't hide a million dollar machine like a 7-post rig .. and there's not many racin' secrets (except what the crew chief and engine guy keep locked away in their notes) that don't see the light of day purty quick. most teams you can take a tour of their facility .. if you know what you're looking for, you can find it! and there's plenty of shop guys that move from team to team during the year and they know what kind of equipment the teams have and don't owe any allegiance to one team over the one they're currently with...

methinks Jack & Co. were too busy pursuing the Red Sox bucks to think about next season... now it's biting them in the you know what!!!

Hopefully Jack has some good seats at Fenway !!!

[wardfan]

what is a 7 post rig?

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by wardfan

what is a 7 post rig?

i read a portion of the link, and from what i gathered a good analogy would be a flight simulator

Delta buys a simulator to practice all landing conditions at O'hare = Hendricks buys a 7 post rig to practice all race conditions at Daytona

that's how i saw it anyway ........ someone please correct me if im wrong

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Nevadastars

I'm sure they work just as hard as the more heavily funded teams, they just dont have the resources, also known as money.

EXACTLY!

There is an adage in racing that was told to me when I first wandered into the pits and started asking questions:

"Money buys speed, wins, and championships."

I bet anyone here who is, or has been directly involved in auto racing of any kind, will second that statement.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by Nevadastars

I'm sure they work just as hard as the more heavily funded teams, they just dont have the resources, also known as money.

I wonder how much money teams like RCR, HMS, or Gibbs had when they first started? I would say just as much as teams like Petty Enterprises' have right now. But the difference is those 3 teams worked hard, earned their money, and therefore they were able to get better talent. In the next 10 years, I have no doubt we will talk about Ginn racing and how strong they are. They may not have alot of money now, but they are working hard, and soon enough they will earn it because of their hard work. The lower funded teams need to stop whining to NASCAR and earn their way to being one of the top teams in NASCAR, like the top tier teams did.

There is no doubt money is the outcome of dominance. But you must earn that money in order to dominate.

[wardfan]

the top 35 rule makes it a catch 22 for the "lower funded" teams. It you can't get your car into the race even though your car is faster how can you expect sponsors to continue to give you money. The top 35 makes it so unfair to a team that is trying to get started because the odds are so stacked against them now.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by wardfan

the top 35 rule makes it a catch 22 for the "lower funded" teams. It you can't get your car into the race even though your car is faster how can you expect sponsors to continue to give you money. The top 35 makes it so unfair to a team that is trying to get started because the odds are so stacked against them now.

Which does conflict into my theory yes. But a lower funded team like Petty Enterprises seems to be solid. Labonte is 17th in points, and only 89 behind 12th. Petty isn't doing that great, but he had a great top 5 at Lowes. Those finishes will soon equal into more money.

The start up teams do have a tougher time with the way NASCAR works things these days, the top 35 rule in particular. But it's just as tough to be one of the fastest 43. Instead, your racing the guys outside the top 35 to get in. If your working hard, it will soon lead to success.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Mike24

I wonder how much money teams like RCR, HMS, or Gibbs had when they first started? I would say just as much as teams like Petty Enterprises' have right now. But the difference is those 3 teams worked hard, earned their money, and therefore they were able to get better talent. In the next 10 years, I have no doubt we will talk about Ginn racing and how strong they are. They may not have a lot of money now, but they are working hard, and soon enough they will earn it because of their hard work. The lower funded teams need to stop whining to NASCAR and earn their way to being one of the top teams in NASCAR, like the top tier teams did.

There is no doubt money is the outcome of dominance. But you must earn that money in order to dominate.

I don't know where to begin...

When Childress, Hendrick and Gibbs started there wasn't the perponderence of Mega-Teams we now see. Then the "big guns" were Junior Johnson, Bud Moore, and a whole bunch of owners long gone. Money was as relavent then as it is today, but the shear amounts make comparing the eras of the '70's, 80's and '90's meaningless.

Bobby Ginn is probably the richest individual team owner in NASCAR today. Between his ability to spend, and Junior's salary demands, the price of competing in NASCAR is about to skyrocket right off the charts.

"...the lower funded teams need to quit complaining and work hard.

Let's talk about complaining first. In 1987 there was a hard and fast rule in NASCAR that no team owner could have more than two teams. It had been that way for 29 years. The Felon, who had agreed to abide by NASCAR's rules when he became a team owner, had an opportunity to pick up a high-rolling sponsor (Tide) with a name driver (D.W.) but he already had two well-funded, successful teams. He did what any criminal-minded, slime-ball lawyer would have done; he manipulated the wording of the rules and completely went against the intent of the rule. He made his father owner of one team!? NASCAR balked at this and Rick threatened a lawsuit. Bill France Jr. wimped and <presto> the door was opened for the Mega-Team mess we have today. Mentioning The Felon and the absence of whining in the same paragraph is just oxymoronic.

You mention "Hard Work, Mike." May I tell you my concept of people who work hard in NASCAR? It's the teams like BAM and Front Row, who are so underfunded that it's just plain silly. But they play Don Quixote each week, showing up and just trying to make a race. On rare occasion they actually do manage to knock down a windmill, but usually they have to pack up and go home, only to try again. THAT, my friend, is hard work! Doing it with a big bankroll and a Chosen 35 spot is mere child's play.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I don't know where to begin...

When Childress, Hendrick and Gibbs started there wasn't the perponderence of Mega-Teams we now see. Then the "big guns" were Junior Johnson, Bud Moore, and a whole bunch of owners long gone. Money was as relavent then as it is today, but the shear amounts make comparing the eras of the '70's, 80's and '90's meaningless.

Bobby Ginn is probably the richest individual team owner in NASCAR today. Between his ability to spend, and Junior's salary demands, the price of competing in NASCAR is about to skyrocket right off the charts.

"...the lower funded teams need to quit complaining and work hard.

Let's talk about complaining first. In 1987 there was a hard and fast rule in NASCAR that no team owner could have more than two teams. It had been that way for 29 years. The Felon, who had agreed to abide by NASCAR's rules when he became a team owner, had an opportunity to pick up a high-rolling sponsor (Tide) with a name driver (D.W.) but he already had two well-funded, successful teams. He did what any criminal-minded, slime-ball lawyer would have done; he manipulated the wording of the rules and completely went against the intent of the rule. He made his father owner of one team!? NASCAR balked at this and Rick threatened a lawsuit. Bill France Jr. wimped and <presto> the door was opened for the Mega-Team mess we have today. Mentioning The Felon and the absence of whining in the same paragraph is just oxymoronic.

You mention "Hard Work, Mike." May I tell you my concept of people who work hard in NASCAR? It's the teams like BAM and Front Row, who are so underfunded that it's just plain silly. But they play Don Quixote each week, showing up and just trying to make a race. On rare occasion they actually do manage to knock down a windmill, but usually they have to pack up and go home, only to try again. THAT, my friend, is hard work! Doing it with a big bankroll and a Chosen 35 spot is mere child's play.

Bob, I wasn't watching NASCAR in the 70's and 80's, so I guess you can say "I don't know what I'm talking about." I've watched since the 90's, so I guess that's where my knowledge begins.