[LSC9901]

Now these are the kinds of discussions I like. Varied opinions and no one os wrong.

Unfortunately, obrien, it is beginning to break in the eyes of some. It's being broken by France and he just can't see the forest for the trees.

Doing what's "hip", altering schedules, moving dates, closing "OLD" tracks. Yup ... they are all hot button issues and are all true. It's possible that some of these changes could be made with positive effects, but I think that what has been done so far is more on the side of negative effects. Obviously you cannot ever please everyone so you have to do what is best ... what is best ???

The fan of today is without a doubt different. Now that isn't 100% true but I see many fans today as revolving door fans. Here today gone tomorrow when the next big sporting craze hits. The long time, old time fans see it and feel it. Todays fan does view my generation of fans as the hillbilly, tobacco chewin', shine runnin' fans. While some of that image may be true I think the long time fan has grown with the sport in respect to following the team technology.

I would also agree that TV has expanded to the point of oversaturation of sports. I cannot see what so many see in reality TV maybe there just isn't enough time in a day to watch all the sports that you are interested in so you are forced into choices that we didn't have 30 years ago.

Looking forward to many more opinions.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Now these are the kinds of discussions I like. Varied opinions and no one os wrong.

Unfortunately, obrien, it is beginning to break in the eyes of some. It's being broken by France and he just can't see the forest for the trees.

Doing what's "hip", altering schedules, moving dates, closing "OLD" tracks. Yup ... they are all hot button issues and are all true. It's possible that some of these changes could be made with positive effects, but I think that what has been done so far is more on the side of negative effects. Obviously you cannot ever please everyone so you have to do what is best ... what is best ???

The fan of today is without a doubt different. Now that isn't 100% true but I see many fans today as revolving door fans. Here today gone tomorrow when the next big sporting craze hits. The long time, old time fans see it and feel it. Todays fan does view my generation of fans as the hillbilly, tobacco chewin', shine runnin' fans. While some of that image may be true I think the long time fan has grown with the sport in respect to following the team technology.

I would also agree that TV has expanded to the point of oversaturation of sports. I cannot see what so many see in reality TV maybe there just isn't enough time in a day to watch all the sports that you are interested in so you are forced into choices that we didn't have 30 years ago.

Looking forward to many more opinions.

France is trying to go away from that. You won't see much of the hillbilly tobacco chewin fans these days. France is trying to capture the newer audience that will find NASCAR entertaining. Soon enough, he will find that audience. It will take time though.

[jks812]

Originally Posted by Mike24

France is trying to go away from that. You won't see much of the hillbilly tobacco chewin fans these days. France is trying to capture the newer audience that will find NASCAR entertaining. Soon enough, he will find that audience. It will take time though.

That's just it, seems he's trying to get away from the ones that have carried this sport all these years.

[jks812]

While I understand that it has to have new fans, you don't push away the tried and true ones.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Mike24

France is trying to go away from that. You won't see much of the hillbilly tobacco chewin fans these days. France is trying to capture the newer audience that will find NASCAR entertaining. Soon enough, he will find that audience. It will take time though.

I agree to an extent. If you read the article you'd see that the hillbilly fan base created its own followers. I know that isn't the total answer and I understand the need to entice new fans but they are just kicking the old fans to the side in favor of the $$$ fans.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by jks812

While I understand that it has to have new fans, you don't push away the tried and true ones.

This is a concept I have struggled with for 2-3 years. Since around 1993-94 I had the feeling NASCAR was thumbing its nose at us long-time fans. I felt as though I was "being pushed aside," being replaced by some trendy yuppie who had found some sort of connection with NASCAR "Youth Movement." It sure felt that way and I was one disappointed fan!

However, after some deep thought and rationalization I see things from a slightly different slant. Maybe NA$CAR hasn't "pushed us away?"

Before Winston took over in 1971 NASCAR was all about simple stock car racing. It was inhabited by gearheads who either drove, worked on, or otherwise just loved American cars. It was simple.

Enter RJR and the Winston Cup. They brought in massive amounts of money, some national attention and paved the way for the NA$CAR we have today. However, the sport remained basically a refuge for the aforementioned gearheads. No big changes there.

That was in the BJG Era. (Before Jeff Gordon) In the year 01 AJG (Exactly Nov. 15th, 1992, for you sticking to the Julian Calendar), it all began to change. Jeffy appealed to an entire segment of our society which had NEVER considered stock car racing as something entertaining. I could expand on this theme but it isn't about Jeffy-Pooh, it's about NA$CAR and us long-time fans...

NA$CAR now had a new item to consider, a demographic. The audience which people like Jeffy appealed to. Before there was no such thing as a demographic in NASCAR; you either loved racing or you didn't. Period.

You don't have to target race fans; with us it's a black or white issue. It's about the racing. But with this new group it was about glitz, hype, toy cars and over priced wearing apparel, youth and disposable income.

NA$CAR spent its efforts on this group, so much so that today there are countless families who spend thousands having their kids go directly from a baby stroller to a 3/4 midget or go kart. It feel as though many are using their kids as the family's "Golden Parachute," a.k.a. retirement plan. Many old time race fans just taught their sons to work on their car, then helped them a little bit at the local track in the Bomber Division.

So what feels like NA$CAR "pushing us away," MIGHT just be the targeting of a specific demographic why us long time fans aren't really a "demographic," we're just fans that have never had to be targeted; we followed NASCAR because it was just natural and was just what we did.

I hope that point wasn't totally confusing...

[SpaceCadet]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I hope that point wasn't totally confusing...

Definately not confusing. Jeez, it was practically profound! I think your assessment of the situation is right on the money, and frankly, I think it's part of the reason so many people absolutely hate JG. He represents change, and change can be very difficult.

I totally agree on your point regarding parents making a bee line to the kart tracks with their kids. That's true in every sport, but the gripe I have is one I see manifested every week at the local track. Some of these kids are just too young to be moving up so quickly. They just aren't ready. Not too many fatalities or even really life threatening injuries take place on the soccer field. While there is the potential for injury or death in all sports, I think pushing your kid too hard in any motor sport is a recipe for disaster.

I believe there is room for every type of person/personality to be a fan of NASCAR. Because I grew up getting mighty greasy helping Dad fix his car, I definately appreciate why the die hard fans, myself included, are resistant to some of these changes. I am one who now embraces change, mainly because had some changes happened sooner, I'd have been driving at my local track. I've had to expand/re-think my paradeims (that can't be spelled right), but it's allowed me to enjoy the sport even more.

So if you all weren't confused before, I'll bet I just put you right over the top.

[obrien]

Originally Posted by BringBackWilkesboro

Obviously something isn't right, Mr. France. It's not an issue of why fix it if it aint broke, Obrien, it's now time to fix what is.

your absolutely right about that. Another point I have never understood, is why would you stop using tracks that attracted fans, to go places that people could care less about.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by obrien

your absolutely right about that. Another point I have never understood, is why would you stop using tracks that attracted fans, to go places that people could care less about.

Without facts right in front of me, my only guess is that it revolves around money. If location "B" has more money to offer than location "A" ... guess who gets the nod. Todays NASCAR leans more towards the $$$ than it does to fan loyalty and what the fans are more interested in seeing.

[simple simon]

i think there is something some of you are missing or just in denial about here ...... yes NASCAR is headed in a new direction and no they dont care about you

i have seen some here ask why NASCAR seems to be abandoning the tobacco loving fans that have been fans since basically the start ........ well think about it Winston is gone ........ Harry Gant and his Skoal car are gone ....... those days are gone ......... get over it ........... (yes i was a fan then too and it will always be the Winston Cup to me, but i also need to get over it)

now let's look at another angle of it .......... Bob, BBW, LSC, Duck .... how old are you ........ i really dont mean to be mean, seriously just trying to make a point ......... how much do/would you spend on NASCAR a year ..... and if NASCAR tweaks every now and then will your expenditures change much ? ........ people in your age bracket (i will guess with no intend to offend ... over 50) they either have you as a fan and not much will change that or they dont have you as a fan and they dont care

i submit by the time most people reach 50 they have a set income and budget, and that budget either includes NASCAR or it doesnt ....... if it doesnt they may become fans enough to turn on a race but that lines the pockets of cable companies not NASCAR

people over 50 may have season tickets to a track like my parents do at Loudon and it would take a whole lot of major tweaking for them to drop those seats

NASCAR is after the younger crowd ........ the peers of Dale Jr and Denny Hamlin ......... the X-Games crowd .......... those that just graduated college, got jobs paying real good money and arent sure what to do with all that money ..... not my parents that have been fans basically since the beginning (my dad was born in '41)


i apologize if i rambled here or seemed to have made little sense there was a point in there i promise

[LSC9901]

In fact I am over 50. I'm retired and money for a race isn't a big, big issue. If I really wanted to go I'd do it. I've been lucky enough to attend some races in person and find that I enjoy them more from the comfort of my recliner. In person you can only watch one part of the track at any given time. If an accident happens in turn 4 and you're watching turn 2 ... you missed it. No replays at the track, although now they do have the big screens. Of course then there is the loud mouth drunk who always sits beside you and cheers for ______ and you dislike that driver beyond belief.

So back to the subject. The only point I could gather from what you said was that NA$CAR wants the younger crowd. To a degree I disagree. The X-box, X-games crowd are the people in America today that are taking the brunt of the poor economy. I believe that even in my retirement that I have more of a cash flow than many of those young people that you feel NASCAR is pandering to. I don't have $90K in college loans and I have no mortgage. Consequently as far as NASCAR tossing aside the long time fan .. it is a mistake from my point of view. I don't feel that the old time fans are all tobacco smoking, shine running people. We are blue collar workers who have an understanding of what is under the hood and how it works. Yes there are those in todays generation that are qualified in that area also, but my bet is the numbers are fewer.

No doubt there are many other reasons as to why NASCAR is headed in the wrong direction. Everyone has their own point of view and direction that they look at it from.

NASCAR may in fact be after tyhe younger crowd since the drivers are mostly young enough to be my kids now but of the new young generation fans ... how many will still be fans in 10 years ???

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

In fact I am over 50. I'm retired and money for a race isn't a big, big issue. If I really wanted to go I'd do it.

I believe that even in my retirement that I have more of a cash flow than many of those young people that you feel NASCAR is pandering to. I don't have $90K in college loans and I have no mortgage.

my point there wasnt at all that you dont have the money ........ it was the fact that no matter how much money you have, you already know what you want to do with it ........ in a way i think you helped me make that point ....... you certainly have the money to attend races, but you choose not to

i was saying there, people over 50 i believe have already made their choice for the most part whether to attend races or not ....... whether or not to buy collectibles ................. i think NASCAR is more leaning to going after younger people that have not yet made these choices

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

You don't have to target race fans; with us it's a black or white issue. It's about the racing. But with this new group it was about glitz, hype, toy cars and over priced wearing apparel, youth and disposable income.

see i think that actually mostly sums up what i was trying to say ...... sorry i didnt see it before Bob

and i think this is illustrated perfectly in that stupid Chevy Impala commercial i hate where they ruined 'Sweet Home Alabama" ....... Dale Jr and Tony Stewart (and drivers i dont quickly recognize) are in the commercial ......... i can tell you the ad isnt aimed at my parents

[obrien]

I am only 28 yet it bugs me to see what is happening. I have been a fan since the late 80s. My parents would take my brother and I to charlotte every year, and I attended a couple of races at the Rock. However, as much as I would love to go to a race, its really not practical for me due to the price of tickets. I am within a couple hours of daytona and would love to see a race there, especailly before the bring the COTs in next year. I am by no means someone with a large income, but I am a gearhead that loves fast cars and boats. I have been wanting to take my wife so that she could half way understand what the allure to this sport is for me, but I seriously doubt that will ever happen since it only gets more expensive to attend the races, and nascar continues making changes that irritate me.

[LSC9901]

You verify a couple of previous posts. One ... it is now out of your price range for the most part even though your age group is the group they are after. I think you are in the majority. Secondly you admit to being a gearhead which is the group they should seek as the new breed but as they try to get you they keep you away with the prices