[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Mike24

Your saying Hendrick isn't honest because he got Gordon while the opportunity lasted? If Bill Davis wanted Gordon, he should have signed him to a contract. A verbal agreement doesn't mean he will stay with the team, but a written contract does. Hendrick saw a talent, and got him before Bill Davis did. Gordon wasn't dishonest, and Hendrick wasn't either.

Matter of fact, maybe Bill Davis made the greatest error in racing, not signing Jeff Gordon while the opportunity was there? But Bill Davis relied on a verbal agreement, and you don't do that. Sometimes you have to go to another team that you see a better fit with, and Gordon saw that, and Hendrick signed him.

Bottom line is, if I was in Gordon's position and I knew there wasn't a written contract saying I have to stay with the team, I would look at other options and see if there may be a better fit. Gordon saw that, and so did Hendrick. Bill Davis has nothing to blame but himself for letting Gordon go.

<sigh> You made my point much better than I could, Mike.

I rest my case.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Lefty Noob

Hard to give two figs about the Indy 500 when I'm really only familiar with three drivers in it -- Dan Wheldon, Marco Andretti and Danica Patrick.

...and, from what he said on TV, Wheldon will probably be headed to NASCAR within the next 12 months (Along with Helio Castroneves).

T.G. has allowed to let Penske, Ganassi and Andretti to have too much influence in the IRL and it's unfortunately headed back in the direction CART was.

Where is USAC when you need it?

[SpaceCadet]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I'm with you 100% Bob, it's like you said in your post, todays generation look at honor a wee bit differently.

Please, please, please do not put all of today's generation in the same category, as Simon did with all women in another thread. I raised a few of "today's generation" and they most certainly understand the meaning of honor. To make the leap from some NASCAR fiasco because a car owner was too stupid to get a contract signed and some smart lawyer told Gordon to jump ship, (and gee, I'll bet Gordon is the only athlete to ever show such lack of character) to "today's generation lacks honor" is nuts. What was Gordon, 8 years old at the time? Yes, sarcasm. Perhaps youth and excitement clouded things a little, along with advise from parents and attorneys. But I really resent the implication that all "kid's" these days are ungrateful, honorless brats. My "younger generation" kid, and many of her friends, risk their lives for this country. I'd say there is honor in that. Sorry about the rampage, but I see more and more of comments like this addressed towards females or kids, and lumping everybody all together just isn't right. I know no harm is meant, but I really resent it. I don't lump you guys into the "all men are pigs" category. Sometimes the male chauvenism and "kid" chauvenism in this male dominated sport/forum is disheartening. Yes, I'm off topic, except for the few Gordo comments. Hall me to the trailer, but sorry, I'm not a beer drinker. I'll bring Dr. Pepper. I'm going to go chill, avoid watching any racing, and try to regain my sense of humor. I've gotten way too serious this Memorial Day weekend.

[wardfan]

Together they brought Jeff to NASCAR, but believed that Jeff was as good as his word. THEN Hendrick saw him and they found out Jeff's verbal promise to stay with them wasn't enough.

So the man's word means nothing. No honor there

[Lefty Noob]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

Please, please, please do not put all of today's generation in the same category, as Simon did with all women in another thread. I raised a few of "today's generation" and they most certainly understand the meaning of honor. To make the leap from some NASCAR fiasco because a car owner was too stupid to get a contract signed and some smart lawyer told Gordon to jump ship, (and gee, I'll bet Gordon is the only athlete to ever show such lack of character) to "today's generation lacks honor" is nuts. What was Gordon, 8 years old at the time? Yes, sarcasm. Perhaps youth and excitement clouded things a little, along with advise from parents and attorneys. But I really resent the implication that all "kid's" these days are ungrateful, honorless brats. My "younger generation" kid, and many of her friends, risk their lives for this country. I'd say there is honor in that. Sorry about the rampage, but I see more and more of comments like this addressed towards females or kids, and lumping everybody all together just isn't right. I know no harm is meant, but I really resent it. I don't lump you guys into the "all men are pigs" category. Sometimes the male chauvenism and "kid" chauvenism in this male dominated sport/forum is disheartening. Yes, I'm off topic, except for the few Gordo comments. Hall me to the trailer, but sorry, I'm not a beer drinker. I'll bring Dr. Pepper. I'm going to go chill, avoid watching any racing, and try to regain my sense of humor. I've gotten way too serious this Memorial Day weekend.

Well said. Clearly, it's not a problem with youth... it's a problem in sports, because much older coaches are doing the same thing. Worse, actually, because they're not honoring contracts, not just bailing on verbal committments. When this is the kind of example the so-called adults are setting for athletes, regardless of sports, what are the younger athletes and everyone else supposed to think? And that's not even getting into stick and ball owners who ask veteran players to renegotiate their contracts and vice versa. It's a problem all around the world of sports and knows no boundaries of age.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

I'll bring Dr. Pepper. I'm going to go chill, avoid watching any racing, ...

SC, have a double DP. I'll join you.

Chillin' is good too, but watch the race and root for your guy/gal. Ya know ya want to.....

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

Please, please, please do not put all of today's generation in the same category, as Simon did with all women in another thread. I raised a few of "today's generation" and they most certainly understand the meaning of honor. To make the leap from some NASCAR fiasco because a car owner was too stupid to get a contract signed and some smart lawyer told Gordon to jump ship, (and gee, I'll bet Gordon is the only athlete to ever show such lack of character) to "today's generation lacks honor" is nuts. What was Gordon, 8 years old at the time? Yes, sarcasm. Perhaps youth and excitement clouded things a little, along with advise from parents and attorneys. But I really resent the implication that all "kid's" these days are ungrateful, honorless brats. My "younger generation" kid, and many of her friends, risk their lives for this country. I'd say there is honor in that. Sorry about the rampage, but I see more and more of comments like this addressed towards females or kids, and lumping everybody all together just isn't right. I know no harm is meant, but I really resent it. I don't lump you guys into the "all men are pigs" category. Sometimes the male chauvenism and "kid" chauvenism in this male dominated sport/forum is disheartening. Yes, I'm off topic, except for the few Gordo comments. Hall me to the trailer, but sorry, I'm not a beer drinker. I'll bring Dr. Pepper. I'm going to go chill, avoid watching any racing, and try to regain my sense of humor. I've gotten way too serious this Memorial Day weekend.

I owe you SC. I did one of the things I hate the most. You just cannot lump everyone into one catagory. I plead guilty but I'm sure you follow what I'm saying in reference to todays generation versus one from 25 plus years ago. Back in the day you could shake someones hand and consider it a done deal. Today it is more prevelent that it all needs to be done by some Philadelphia lawyer and then there is always a way out.

[Racer Duck]

situational ethics is more prevalent today than 10 years ago and seems to be more popular than ever. but it's also been around forever. still, I don't remember the man upstairs ever saying it was OK. a man's (or a woman's) word is their honor. if it's easily broken, it's their dis-honor. but some folks don't care about honor as long as they get what they want.

the fact that Jeffy left BDR for HMS because he could isn't important. what is important, at least to me and a few other folks, is whether he "gave his word" and broke it or if he gave BDR a chance to meet or beat HMS' offer.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

situational ethics is more prevalent today than 10 years ago and seems to be more popular than ever. but it's also been around forever. still, I don't remember the man upstairs ever saying it was OK. a man's (or a woman's) word is their honor. if it's easily broken, it's their dis-honor. but some folks don't care about honor as long as they get what they want.

the fact that Jeffy left BDR for HMS because he could isn't important. what is important, at least to me and a few other folks, is whether he "gave his word" and broke it or if he gave BDR a chance to meet or beat HMS' offer.

He gave BDR a chance, and obviously HMS beat BDR.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Mike24

He gave BDR a chance, and obviously HMS beat BDR.

If you give someone your word, you should stand by your word. A persons word is as only good as they are. Obviously Gordon's ain't worth sh!t. JMHO