[simple simon]

not so long ago was the day when a few drivers would try and race the Indy 500 and the Coca-Cola 600 in the same day

i believe John Andretti and Robby Gordon were the last to try it

will it happen again ? ........ seems Montoya would be a key player if he wanted to ......... i know Andretti is in the 500 again this year

personally i think it's an awesome feat even to attempt let alone accomplish .... of course so many things have to go right even to be able to start both races let alone drive the 1100 miles

[LSC9901]

Between driving the 1100 miles and flying between Charlotte and Indy, plus getting to and from the airport ... has got to be just a wee bit tiring.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by simple simon

not so long ago was the day when a few drivers would try and race the Indy 500 and the Coca-Cola 600 in the same day

i believe John Andretti and Robby Gordon were the last to try it

will it happen again ? ........ seems Montoya would be a key player if he wanted to ......... i know Andretti is in the 500 again this year

personally i think it's an awesome feat even to attempt let alone accomplish .... of course so many things have to go right even to be able to start both races let alone drive the 1100 miles

Some genius at Indianapolis decided that they didn't want to link the IRL with NASCAR in any way (probably the same brain-dead dreamer who nixed the proposal of the IRL running its races as accessory races, running the day before the Cup races in tandem with the Cup Lite or CTS races). The start time of the Indy 500 was set back one hour, which makes it impossible for a driver to run INDY, then jump on a plane and make it to Charlotte in time to start the World 600.

Until the IRL wakes up and realizes that its ONLY claim to fame is the Indy 500 and that it is the Second racing Series in the USA at this time, we'll probably never see the Indy/Charlotte double done again.

[simple simon]

well then that's just stupid

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Until the IRL wakes up and realizes that its ONLY claim to fame is the Indy 500 and that it is the Second racing Series in the USA at this time, we'll probably never see the Indy/Charlotte double done again.

I'm not sure that's true anymore. I think the World of Outlaws is drawing more fans on an annual basis to their races than IRL .. but I could be wrong...

[jks812]

I use to watch it when Robby would run it. But I don't anymore. Just doesn't seem that interesting to me. Although I did watch some of it last year, I think it was, when Marco Andretti did so good.

[wardfan]

I think Indy got their feeling hurt when they saw a NASCAR driver would do their race and they go do the 600. It made their race seem just a little trivial. Wasn't Tony Stewart the last guy to do well in both races? Didn't he finish in the top ten in both races the last time? And by the way since only watch the Indy 500, what is the difference between the Indy cars, Cart, Grand Prix cars. At the moment I have the Grand Prix of Monaco on Speed. Those cars look different than the Indy cars, but in terms of speeds & such what are the differences?

[simple simon]

i believe the Gran Prix cars are basically Indy cars on steroids ..... and the teams cost about 10 times as much to run

i dont think there is really any difference between CART and IRL cars

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

I'm not sure that's true anymore. I think the World of Outlaws is drawing more fans on an annual basis to their races than IRL .. but I could be wrong...

I believe that you're correct about the larger number of WoO fans v. IRL fans, Duck. I've seen those figures published. However, they reflect the total number of events held in each series. IRL holds... 16 races? WoO has...? I'm not sure now that they've had the split but I think, at one time, it numbered around 40? When you throw out attendance for the Indy 500 the IRL attendance probably probably isn't a figure which scares the WoO to death.

One interesting aside here, which since you are apparently actively involved in racing, you may want to comment on, is the growth of open wheeled racing in the USA. In my travels around the country, and attending local races, I see fewer and fewer competitive late models showing up and more and more open wheels (sprints, winged sprints, modifieds, aspirated sprints which are called modifieds, etc.).
Ten years ago I saw these only in the mid west and out on the left coast. Now they are pretty common in Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, plus a lot of east coast States and southwest States.
I'm not sure why I see this trend, but I suspect it has to do with the cost of running a late model and/or the way the purses are divided up at night's end.

[BringBackWilkesboro]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

I'm not sure that's true anymore. I think the World of Outlaws is drawing more fans on an annual basis to their races than IRL .. but I could be wrong...

WoO is definately second in my book. I'd even slide the Hooters ProCup ahead of IRL. But of course that's only me and I tend to throw sensibility out the window now and then. I do plan on peeking in on the 500 today though because it is a great day for Racing. F1 ran the Monaco Gran Prix this morning, then the 91st Indy 500 and NASCAR's original crown jewel event after that. It doesn't get any better for motorsports no matter what you watch.

[wardfan]

I've the the indy pre race show and its all about Michael, Mario & the ladies. Not even a word about John Andretti. I hope he smokes all their butts

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

One interesting aside here, which since you are apparently actively involved in racing, you may want to comment on, is the growth of open wheeled racing in the USA. In my travels around the country, and attending local races, I see fewer and fewer competitive late models showing up and more and more open wheels (sprints, winged sprints, modifieds, aspirated sprints which are called modifieds, etc.).
Ten years ago I saw these only in the mid west and out on the left coast. Now they are pretty common in Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, plus a lot of east coast States and southwest States.
I'm not sure why I see this trend, but I suspect it has to do with the cost of running a late model and/or the way the purses are divided up at night's end.

Bob, you hit a hot button of mine. It has to do with selfishness and greed. So pardon me if I seem to wander away from the primary point of your question. My answer is really more of a "one man's story" to illustrate my point. It's a problem many racers are wrestling with today.

I'm an asphalt racer (actually I own the cars, my son drives and a few friends help us wrench - basically a low buck operation, but we race for the fun of it, not to make money.) We just bought a late model that's been parked under a tree for 3 years (no engine or trans) - we're trying to get it ready to race locally (in the TSRS series). We also have a Super Late Model that, with the closing of the San Antonio track earlier this year and the resultant closing the doors of the USRA (formerly ROMCO) series for SLMs, the closest place I can race it is in your back yard: Mobile, Opp, Pensacola -a 650 mile tow- lots of our Texas SLM guys are doing it and we're hoping to be able to do the same by this Fall, but it takes lots more $$$ to go that far to race.

Thus the crux of the problem: there's fewer and fewer asphalt tracks (Montgomery closed it's doors last year - it's a great track that's now being used as a parking lot!) .. the cost of putting down a dirt track and maintaining it is much less than asphalt which pretty much guarantees there'll be more dirt tracks built than asphalt. It's not that we (asphalt) don't have fans or that the purses aren't enough (they never are), it's that there's little or no consistency in rules from track to track such that even if a racer wanted to race at multiple tracks it's too costly to do so 'cause you'd need to rebuild the car or have multiple cars, one for each set of rules. The tracks don't seem interested in standardizing 'cause it'll cause some pain to their current crop of racers (but racers always complain about anything that's not their idea...) When the car count goes down, the tracks can't afford to keep their doors open.

Enter IMSA. They have a good set of rules that cover many classes of dirt cars. I think they have a couple asphalt classes, but they aren't the focus of the organization: their bread and butter is dirt modifieds. They're cheaper to build and race than a late model, being open wheeled, their bodies don't get tore up during normal racing like the full bodied cars (a new body for a late model costs $2k, a modified about half that), and by and large, their engines aren't as "exotic" as the late models. And IMSA has done a great job of "standardizing" rules so Joe Racer can take his dirt car anywhere in the country where there's an IMSA sanctioned track and run it. That's the draw for IMSA: inexpensive cars + inexpensive racing + standardized rules + big car counts and exciting racing = $$$ for the track. The smart track owners are implementing IMSA style rules and reaping the benefits even if they aren't IMSA sanctioned.

In my opinion IMSA has been the major reason for the growth of dirt racing and open wheel racing in the US in recent years. But they never would have grown like they have had the asphalt tracks standardized their rules (which usually means fewer rules...) Every track has a few racers that would like to see how they stack up against the racers at other tracks and have the means to do it .. they don't mind reasonable weight penalties for "advantages" they might have as long as they can race without considerable time and/or $$$ to change their car to be "legal".

You might be asking why we don't convert our SLM so we can run closer to home. We just finished putting together a new engine - took us most of a year to get everything together for our 9:1 chevy 18 degree dry sump engine. That may be "Greek" to some, but those in the know will understand they are not a common engine anymore (they're the old Busch engines from 10 years ago.) Ours is worth $30K .. it's brand new and never been run (still on the engine stand.) We could convert to a "crate" engine, but that's easier said than done. Besides the $8K for the "crate" engine, we'd have to redo our suspension geometries, re-setup the car for the higher center of gravity, spend several testing sessions getting the handling back where we want it jsut to run locally for a smaller purse. But we would still have a brand new $30K engine we can't use gathering dust and the car will be "hacked" to do something it wasn't designed for. When we bought the car from Rich Bickle, it had won the Snowball 3 times (no other single car has). To chop it up so we can run it locally in a lesser class just seems wrong. Until we can find it a good home where it'll be allowed to "play" with it's peers, we'll make occasional trips to "playgrounds" that welcome its kind.

Oh yeah, for the uninitiated, dirt cars and asphalt cars are completely different animals. Their designs are completely different as are the driving styles. It's possible to convert one to the other, but it requires considerable expense (almost the cost of a new car) and time. It's easier and the results will be better to get a car designed for the surface you will be racing on. Which brings us back to the cost issue. Dirt racing is less expensive, on the whole, than asphalt racing. If the track is less expensive to build and maintain and the cars are less expensive to build and maintain, it's only logical that there'll be more of them, everything else being equal.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

Bob, you hit a hot button of mine. It has to do with selfishness and greed. So pardon me if I seem to wander away from the primary point of your question. My answer is really more of a "one man's story" to illustrate my point. It's a problem many racers are wrestling with today.

.

Exactly the response I was looking for, Duck.

It answered a question I had as to the increase in open wheel racing. So, IMSA (they've been around a long time and have gone through at least to re-inventions of itself that I can remember) saw an opening and it stepped in to fill a gap. That makes a lot of sense.

Selfishness equates to stupidity, when it comes to track owners and promoters. For example, I have lived in areas where there were multiple asphalt tracks in close proximity. We had to have different tires for each track, plus we had to run different carbs and intakes. Common rules would have made things much simpler and cost effective to the competitors. As a car owner and wrench I bet you agree with this one 1000%?

Yeah, dirt chassis and asphalt chassis are totally different. I've never driven dirt but that "rear steer" suspension that successful dirt track cars use makes me think that I'd have been even less successful there than I was on the hard stuff.

If you ever feel the need to run Mobile International or try The Snowball Derby at Five Flags, send me an e-mail. I'm sure we'd find something to talk about.

[Bob Tanner]

Duck, you mentioned having to pull as far as Mobile and P'Cola to run...

Do you know Casey Smith from Austin? He won the 100-lap feature at Mobile Int'l last nite.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Duck, you mentioned having to pull as far as Mobile and P'Cola to run...

Do you know Casey Smith from Austin? He won the 100-lap feature at Mobile Int'l last nite.

Yeah, he joined ROMCO in it's last year .. we raced against him for 2 years. He's one of the racers with a rich dad who's willing to spend any amount to get him into the big leagues. He has talent, but had an attitude when we raced him. He may have changed .. dunno.

I do know he's helping a friend of mine get a late model sorted out that he bought from Slick Yoemans. My friend is looking to change the body out and we seem to be first in line to get it (it's completely cherry, not a scratch on it!!!)

Anyway, Casey has been doing good at the tracks in your area. Almost everytime I see something on him he's in the Top 5. I think he runs ASA and maybe one or two other series also.

There's another racer from Austin that's taking a different path: Bradley Reithmeyer. He won the (Ford Focus) driver challenge a couple years ago and got a fully sponsored ride in an open wheeled sprint-type car. He did well in it, won a bunch of races, and saw the other day he's now in a Busch ride .. but don't remember which one or for how many races. Among Bradley's accomplishments is ROMCO champion for 2003 (or maybe it was 2004...) -sorry, the brain needs rest .. spent this afternoon running the weed eater in the hot sun...