[simple simon]

Dale Sr is the best, case closed

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by simple simon

Dale Sr is the best, case closed

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by simple simon

Dale Sr is the best, case closed

If you can show me stats saying Sr is better, then I'll believe ya.

[SpaceCadet]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

He just doesn't have the clout, again, yet, that the greats before him have.

That's an interesting statement, a spin on things I haven't considered before. Can I ask you to clarify for me? What do you mean by "clout" and what do you base the statement on? Is it "gut instinct", something you just feel strongly about, which I totally get, or does it have some basis in fact somewhere? To me, it's kind of like the discussion of who's a legend - legend is in the eyes of the beholder, as is clout and who's got it. FWIW, I believe the only legend in NASCAR is Richard Petty. I don't believe Earnhardt or Gordon can hold a candle to him, and Gordon will never break his win record. We'll never know for sure, but I don't believe Sr. would ever have come close, either.

[Souporscotty]

OK. It's time for me to speak. First off, Jeff has had grease on his face and hands. When he was 18 or 19, he drove a sprint car for some friends of mine. He literally lived in the garage where the car was kept. He had a bed, stove, fridge etc. All right there. As far as being a better driver than Dale, I'd say it's an absolute draw. Talent wise they are different, but equal. I think the big difference is the way they come across to the public. Gordon's not very personable (He was a very 'nice & polite' young man back THEN). He just never seems to say the right thing at the right time. While Dale, on the other hand was a "Good ol' boy, Aw shucks" kinda guy that people could relate to. I loved some of the things he said. He seemed to ALWAYS say the right thing at thie right time. But barring any tragety, by the end of his career, Jeffy's 'stats' will far exceed Dale's.

[LSC9901]

As I said before I love discussion like this because it brings out many different thoughts and opinions, none of which have changed my mind. Just a few more thoughts on the subject. First ... would this question have even surfaced if Sr were still alive ?? Like Elvis I believe his fan base expanded upon his death. I find that I appreciate him more now than when he was racing. I didn't like his style of driving and now I honor him for what he has given to the sport. Just by the nature of the sport it is vitually impossible to make an even and equal comparison, close yes but not even.

To me the stats say that Jeff is the better driver but the question is do the stats tell it all ? Simple ... NO !!! The stats don't tell about the probelms overcome at any single race and the problems that made some of the stats look poorly. How do you determine someones ability when they are taken out of a race by no fault of their own ? I'm sure in some obscure site there are numbers that show how many times each driver was unable to finish due to another driver (insert Jimmy Spencer here). How many times the pit crew screwed up and so on. Stats are just numbers and yes we rely on them when making comparisons but in this thread we are seeking opinions based on how we see each driver. So before you get your shorts in a wad just remember this is all about how we/I see it. All the stats and opinions are subjective, but at the same time we all get another point of view.

Now as for Richard Petty and his records .... yes they are great and in my opinion he is a living legend. I would include Dale as a legend also but possibly for different reasons. Yes he has a fine record but I feel he is a legend for what he did for the sport versus what numbers he left behind. And now about Petty's numbers. I don't have them in front of me but keep in mind that he raced his early years in a totally diferent era. They ran more races per year which was a great help for boosying the numbers. He also had "THE MAJOR SPONSORSHIP" of that time. Money doesn't hurt when you are trying to build and be the best. I don't question his record I just think there should be a footnote to it explaining the differences between now and then.

[LSC9901]

Don't know if it'll be on again or not but a recent Wind Tunnel show had this very same subject. Interesting.

[PettyBlue]

Very short read but sums up this thread,bit dated but still true, Best NASCAR Driver: All Time - NASCAR Drivers - GoNascarGo.com

[jks812]

Originally Posted by PettyBlue

Very short read but sums up this thread,bit dated but still true, Best NASCAR Driver: All Time - NASCAR Drivers - GoNascarGo.com

Thank you for that. I agree, depends all on how you look at it or how to look at it. There is really no way to determine who's best between the two. Especially since one is alive and one's not.