[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Mike24

And for those who think Jeff was handed a silver spoon, you are wrong. Jeff had to come up through the ranks just like Sr had to.

Not exactly, Mike. Jeff's coming up and Sr.'s were quite different.

[jks812]

Originally Posted by Mike24

The only way we can compare Gordon to Sr is... putting up the stats from their first 7 full time seasons.

Jeff Gordon - Poles 30 Wins 49 Top 5 118 Top 10 144 Championships 3

Dale Earnhardt - Poles 3 Wins 19 Top 5 82 Top 10 128 Championships 1

As you see, Jeff's first 7 seasons were better than Dale Sr's. Lets compare Gordon and Sr when they raced each other, from 1993-2000.

Jeff Gordon - Poles 33 Wins 52 Top 5 129 Top 10 166 Championships 3

Dale Earnhardt - Poles 9 Wins 23 Top 5 101 Top 10 160 Championships 2


Both stats show Jeff is better than Dale Sr. But, I remain neutral in the Earnhardt/Gordon debate. Both were great drivers who had alot of success. I can't say which is better, but the stats show Jeff Gordon is better.

And for those who think Jeff was handed a silver spoon, you are wrong. Jeff had to come up through the ranks just like Sr had to. Jeff doesn't have the talent to take a horrible race car and finish good with it? I challenge you on that comment. Jeff was out to lunch at Bristol, and he brought it home 3rd, and had a shot to win the race. Jeff can take a bad car and make it a winning car, just like Sr could.

Okay this is the problem I have with all of this. The start of the careers were 2 different decades. The cars were absolutely different. When they were racing at the same time, Gordon was starting and Sr was ending. I just don't see how you can take 2 drivers that started in a completely different era of time and compare them.
I also didn't say Gordon was handed a silver spoon. I said he started with a championship caliber team. A team that had already won championships, Sr didn't.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Not exactly, Mike. Jeff's coming up and Sr.'s were quite different.

I will agree that Sr had a tougher time working his way up. But, Jeff was not handed a silver spoon by all means. He had to work his way up as well.

[jks812]

Maybe this would be a better way of telling what I mean. We know Sr could drive and handle and win with the equipment of the 90's when Gordon started. Could Gordon drive, handle and win with the equipment of the 70's?

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by jks812

Okay this is the problem I have with all of this. The start of the careers were 2 different decades. The cars were absolutely different. When they were racing at the same time, Gordon was starting and Sr was ending. I just don't see how you can take 2 drivers that started in a completely different era of time and compare them.
I also didn't say Gordon was handed a silver spoon. I said he started with a championship caliber team. A team that had already won championships, Sr didn't.

I agree with you. The start of their careers were in 2 different decades. BUT, when they raced with each other, Jeff was with a championship caliber team, and Sr was as well. Take a look at the stats closely from when they raced each other. Those stats are really close, except for the wins and poles. I have to disagree with you about Sr ending his career. Sr had alot more years left in his career, and in my opinion, if he was still alive, he would be racing right now. Jeff just had more success in the period of time they raced each other. You can atleast admit that can you?

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Mike24

I will agree that Sr had a tougher time working his way up. But, Jeff was not handed a silver spoon by all means. He had to work his way up as well.

Well, Sr. didn't have Mommy and Daddy relocating to support his career. With all due respect, I think that's what bothers some, not all, fans about Jeff. But alas, we're in a different era now.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Well, Sr. didn't have Mommy and Daddy relocating to support his career. With all due respect, I think that's what bothers some, not all, fans about Jeff. But alas, we're in a different era now.

You also have to remember, that was back in the 60's and 70's. We are in a different era now, where you get more support.

[jks812]

Originally Posted by Mike24

Sr did not forget how to drive, Jeff just had more success than he did. You can atleast admit that can you?

Yes I can admit that. I've stated earlier they are 2 great drivers. But can you also admit this, how many times have you heard them say, the best car didn't win? So if wins is all that counts, how can the best car not win?
I have never(or at least I don't think I have) said Gordon isn't a good driver.

[jks812]

It doesn't bother me about his parents relocating to help him out. I actually think that was kinda cool. Thats what we parents do or at least try to do, give our children every chance we can. And if they were in a position to do that, I don't blame them for it or him.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by jks812

Yes I can admit that. I've stated earlier they are 2 great drivers. But can you also admit this, how many times have you heard them say, the best car didn't win? So if wins is all that counts, how can the best car not win?
I have never(or at least I don't think I have) said Gordon isn't a good driver.

“the winner ain't the one with the fastest car, its the one who refuses to lose”

From the late Dale Earnhardt.

[jks812]

Originally Posted by Mike24

“the winner ain't the one with the fastest car, its the one who refuses to lose”

From the late Dale Earnhardt.

OMG, twice in the same week we agree. Is it storming where you are....lol.. Just kidding.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by jks812

Yes I can admit that. I've stated earlier they are 2 great drivers. But can you also admit this, how many times have you heard them say, the best car didn't win? So if wins is all that counts, how can the best car not win?
I have never(or at least I don't think I have) said Gordon isn't a good driver.

I'm still struggling with this comparison.

Is Gordon a good "driver"? Yes. But I think Sr. was far more exciting, which is why he became my favorite. I saw Sr. do things with a race car that defied physics. No such thing with Gordon ... or anyone else for that matter.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

I'm still struggling with this comparison.

Is Gordon a good "driver"? Yes. But I think Sr. was far more exciting, which is why he became my favorite. I saw Sr. do things with a race car that defied physics. No such thing with Gordon ... or anyone else for that matter.

Sr was a guy that got on the wheel. Jeff is a guy that is a laid back driver, waits until it's time, and he strikes. Both have a very unique driving style that made them successful. But in my opinion, I think driving styles and how exciting they were don't tell who's better.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Mike24

Sr was a guy that got on the wheel. Jeff is a guy that is a laid back driver, waits until it's time, and he strikes. Both have a very unique driving style that made them successful. But in my opinion, I think driving styles and how exciting they were don't tell who's better.

I know, I know ... you're stuck on stats. That's fine. And, yes, Jeff "lurks" in the top 10 or 5, then strikes. Here again I question the term "better". Sr. had an intuition that Gordon will never possess. Sr. and his car were one.

I hate this topic!

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

I know, I know ... you're stuck on stats. That's fine. And, yes, Jeff "lurks" in the top 10 or 5, then strikes. Here again I question the term "better". Sr. had an intuition that Gordon will never possess. Sr. and his car were one.

I hate this topic!

In my opinion, driving styles or talent don't tell the tale... stats tell the tale. Obviously, if you compare them within their first 7 full time seasons, and the time when they raced each other, Jeff is better. But like I said, I am neutral on the Earnhardt/Gordon debate. Both were great drivers, and they had different ways of coming up, different driving styles, etc. I can't say which is the better. But to my comparisons and stats, they show Jeff is better.