[Racer X]

Also, I think there is a big difference in “living off of his father’s legacy” and “living in his father’s shadow”.

Frank Sinatra Jr. = Living off of his father’s legacy

Kurt Russell = living in his father’s (Kirk Douglas) shadow

Sorry for the obscure examples, but they are the only ones I could come up with this early in the morning!!!

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by Souporscotty

So Mike, Just what DO you think of Kyle Petty? I'm sorry, but I think you've let your dislike/emotions kinda run away with this thread.

Kyle Petty is a horrible driver.

Back in the 90's, Kyle was certainly not the greatest driver, but he was an average driver who ran up front. In 1992, he would have won the championship if we were under the current Chase format!

Originally Posted by Racer X

Also, I think there is a big difference in “living off of his father’s legacy” and “living in his father’s shadow”.

Frank Sinatra Jr. = Living off of his father’s legacy

Kurt Russell = living in his father’s (Kirk Douglas) shadow

Sorry for the obscure examples, but they are the only ones I could come up with this early in the morning!!!

I agree. After having second thoughts about this, I think Jr isn't living off of his fathers legacy, but I do believe he is living in the shadow of Sr.

[oncea3fan]

I guess I kind of agree with mike on this one. Jr. is made out to be one of the greatest drivers by the media.
I believe this came to be by the of Sr.'s large fan base when he was killed, we were left with out a driver to root for. but wait here is his rockin' roll son partnered up with one of the most popular sponsors and wala the monster was created.

jr. didn't ask for it, but he has it by way of Sr.

had jr, been named bobby jr. we wouldn't be having this discussion.

also DW and kenny wallace did pretty good in the same equiment as fillins.

and as far as Teresa not giving good equiment, it's not like she went to the shop and said oh here use this used carb, that new custom one costs to much.
she has steve hiemel to run that stuff,
my feelings are that the team had top notch equimpment and didn't get the most out of it or the driver didn't give the proper feed back and then blamed the crew.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

Penny, no matter what anyone thinks of Jr or Gordo, you and I know Jr is the "most popular" active driver and Gordo is the winningest active driver. All others fall in behind them.

Agreed.

I will argue to my death that Jr. is NOT most popular because of his father. That's pure BS! I was a Jr. fan long before Sr. was lost.

I'm just so damn tired of the two being lumped together and compared against each other. I think it would be fair to say that Gordon and Jr. are the most talked about drivers, but for completely different reasons.

Perhaps it's the next-generation fan base. But for those of us who have followed NASCAR for 20-plus years, it's just ridiculous and makes my blood boil!

[LSC9901]

Here is a thread by which we can all defend or curse Jr for how large of a celebrity he is and why he got that way.

I've moved a couple of posts from the DEI replacement thread to here since the posts really were not about the other thread. Mike and I had a spirited discussion but got way off the topic of DEI replacement drivers so .... here is a thread to continue discussing Jr and all the thoughts about him.

To keep it on topic this is not a Jr sucks thread. Most of the previous discussion has been about how great he is or isn't .... and why !!!

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Here is a thread by which we can all defend or curse Jr for how large of a celebrity he is and why he got that way.

I've moved a couple of posts from the DEI replacement thread to here since the posts really were not about the other thread. Mike and I had a spirited discussion but got way off the topic of DEI replacement drivers so .... here is a thread to continue discussing Jr and all the thoughts about him.

To keep it on topic this is not a Jr sucks thread. Most of the previous discussion has been about how great he is or isn't .... and why !!!

Let me make 1 thing clear before I go into detail. I am NOT a Jr hater. I respect Jr as a driver, and for what he is. But, I have my opinions about him as well. I may come across as a hater, but I'm not.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Mike24

Let me make 1 thing clear before I go into detail. I am NOT a Jr hater. I respect Jr as a driver, and for what he is. But, I have my opinions about him as well. I may come across as a hater, but I'm not.

I did enjoy our discussion Mike and I for one have never felt that you hate Jr. I also can't quite follow your logic in respect to our discussions last night but I did note that you have had second thoughts about all we discussed. That can't be all bad.

I will state for the record, again, that I have no favorite driver. I like racing ... period. The reason I get into discussions about any driver is to defend against inaccuracies such as last nights (5/15/07). If someone were pitting Michael waltrip against Kenny Wallace and I saw untruths then I'd battle for correctness.

Anyway ... bring on the next round Mike, although we do somewhat agree on some of the issues now, I'm sure I'll have to straighten you out some more !!!

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Racer X

Also, I think there is a big difference in “living off of his father’s legacy” and “living in his father’s shadow”.

Frank Sinatra Jr. = Living off of his father’s legacy

Kurt Russell = living in his father’s (Kirk Douglas) shadow

Sorry for the obscure examples, but they are the only ones I could come up with this early in the morning!!!

Living in the shadow is not something Jr wants or did. It is a media production that all we dummies must believe because the media tells us so.

Nothing to do with NASCAR but Kurt Russell's father is NOT Kirk Douglas. Have no idea where you may have gotten that one.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Agreed.

I will argue to my death that Jr. is NOT most popular because of his father. That's pure BS! I was a Jr. fan long before Sr. was lost.

I'm just so damn tired of the two being lumped together and compared against each other. I think it would be fair to say that Gordon and Jr. are the most talked about drivers, but for completely different reasons.

Perhaps it's the next-generation fan base. But for those of us who have followed NASCAR for 20-plus years, it's just ridiculous and makes my blood boil!

Was Jr voted the most popular driver in 2000? No. That obviously proves he was not as popular as some of the other drivers then. But, Sr died in 2001, and voted the most popular driver, as he respectfully should have been. But, since 2003, Jr has been voted the most popular driver, and will most likely win it again? So I would like to know how he has been voted the most popular driver since 2003, yet you claim Jr was popular since his rookie year in 2000, when the voting does not show that? Did a group of fans magically come into NASCAR and say hey, I'm gonna become a Jr fan? I doubt that. Alot of the Sr fans converted to Jr fans, and think he is as great as Sr, when in reality he isn't.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Mike24

Was Jr voted the most popular driver in 2000? No. That obviously proves he was not as popular as some of the other drivers then. But, Sr died in 2001, and voted the most popular driver, as he respectfully should have been. But, since 2003, Jr has been voted the most popular driver, and will most likely win it again? So I would like to know how he has been voted the most popular driver since 2003, yet you claim Jr was popular since his rookie year in 2000, when the voting does not show that?

More than likely it is done the same way it was done for Bill Elliott. Bill won the honor 16 times in his career. Once again if we are going to compare records Bill was no better than Jr. Bill won 44 races in his career. A career that spanned over 30 years including some part time driving. There was a period of 7 years where he won no races but was still selected as most popular driver.

Before we get to deep in the most popular driver issue ... just how is it conducted ? How many times can I vote ?? If there is anyway I can vote more than once then the entire process is a joke. Personally I think the most popular award is a media driven gig.

[jks812]

Originally Posted by Mike24

Was Jr voted the most popular driver in 2000? No. That obviously proves he was not as popular as some of the other drivers then. But, Sr died in 2001, and voted the most popular driver, as he respectfully should have been. But, since 2003, Jr has been voted the most popular driver, and will most likely win it again? So I would like to know how he has been voted the most popular driver since 2003, yet you claim Jr was popular since his rookie year in 2000, when the voting does not show that? Did a group of fans magically come into NASCAR and say hey, I'm gonna become a Jr fan? No.

Jr was popular with his own fans. He was more popular to me than some of the other drivers were in 2000. I don't vote for the most popular driver thing. But I would assume the reason he gets it so often now has to be because of his and Sr's fans voting for him. I've never really understood the concept of that lil contest. Take Kyle Petty for instance. He has never won it, doesn't run to good, but he is a pretty popular guy.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

More than likely it is done the same way it was done for Bill Elliott. Bill won the honor 16 times in his career. Once again if we are going to compare records Bill was no better than Jr. Bill won 44 races in his career. A career that spanned over 30 years including some part time driving. There was a period of 7 years where he won no races but was still selected as most popular driver.

Before we get to deep in the most popular driver issue ... just how is it conducted ? How many times can I vote ?? If there is anyway I can vote more than once then the entire process is a joke. Personally I think the most popular award is a media driven gig.

I agree that it is a big media driven gig. But, you also have to remember the fans. The fans are involved as much as the media is. But I do agree with you, the media just drives everything into something that it isn't meant to be.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Mike24

I agree that it is a big media driven gig. But, you also have to remember the fans. The fans are involved as much as the media is. But I do agree with you, the media just drives everything into something that it isn't meant to be.

Keep in mind that for some fans the media tells the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Yes they are loyal fans but some of those fans would have drank the kool-aid with Jim Jones at the People's Temple. Just recently you spoke of Ralph Earnhardt and were surprised to learn th etruth about him. Were you gullable ??? Probably not but you were fed mis-information and believed it. Same situation with Jr fans. The media tells you exactly what you want to hear with no regard for the truth and the fan eats it up. Meanwhile the media makes big bux on your loyalty to a team/driver that,given the proper resources,you may have just ignored.

By the way you can vote an many times as you want in th emost popular driver award. What does that say about the value of it ???

[wardfan]

Originally Posted by Racer X

Also, I think there is a big difference in “living off of his father’s legacy” and “living in his father’s shadow”.

Frank Sinatra Jr. = Living off of his father’s legacy

Kurt Russell = living in his father’s (Kirk Douglas) shadow

Sorry for the obscure examples, but they are the only ones I could come up with this early in the morning!!!

Oops you mean Michael Douglas

[Racer X]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Nothing to do with NASCAR but Kurt Russell's father is NOT Kirk Douglas. Have no idea where you may have gotten that one.

Wow.... Not sure where that one came from, either. I meant Charlie Sheen and Martin Sheen.

I told you it was WAY too early!!!!!