[Bob Tanner]

DEI (Teresa?) said this afternoon that they were going to appeal the "Severity of the punishment." DEI admitted the mistake was made but would appeal the punishment only. DEI went on to say that the change of wing mounts were changed by shop personnel last Thursday and was not discovered by Eury Jr. because he was out of the shop on that day. (He was at Junior's press conference)

The first incident of mistakes at DEI due to preoccupation over Junior's status?

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

DEI (Teresa?) said this afternoon that they were going to appeal the "Severity of the punishment." DEI admitted the mistake was made but would appeal the punishment only. DEI went on to say that the change of wing mounts were changed by shop personnel last Thursday and was not discovered by Eury Jr. because he was out of the shop on that day. (He was at Junior's press conference)

The first incident of mistakes at DEI due to preoccupation over Junior's status?

I'm sure Jr fans are in a riot right now. NASCAR is probably getting emails saying YOU STUPID ....... yeah anyways. NASCAR needs to stick to their word, and stick with the penalty. But if Eury Jr did not know he was doing something illegal, then why fine him? But I see where NASCAR is coming from. He still installed the illegal part on the wing, so he should be held responsible.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Mike24

I'm sure Jr fans are in a riot right now. NASCAR is probably getting emails saying YOU STUPID ....... yeah anyways. NASCAR needs to stick to their word, and stick with the penalty. Now, if Eury Jr did not know about this, then who put the illegal part on the wing? He's the one who needs to be fined and suspended, not Eury Jr.

Huh ???????

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Huh ???????

Ahh, I mistyped that. I apologize.

[Phils20]

NASCAR said they would be even more strict on future infractions, and I find this to be an OK penalty. We all want a level playing field. I wish it had been someone else, but it is what it is.

Like others have said, the precedent is set. We'll have to wait and see what happens next time.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Mike24
I'm sure Jr fans are in a riot right now. NASCAR is probably getting emails saying YOU STUPID ....... yeah anyways. NASCAR needs to stick to their word, and stick with the penalty. Now, if Eury Jr did not know about this, then who put the illegal part on the wing? He's the one who needs to be fined and suspended, not Eury Jr.

<sigh> Well, Mike, we agreed for awhile, anyway.

It's a simple matter of culpability. Eury Jr. was negligent in his duty to assure that his crew did not make unauthorized changes to the car. This duty is why he gets paid the big bucks.

FWIW, one reporter believes, and I am basically in total agreement, that if a team is found to have made unauthorized changes to safety equipment or to parts specifically mandated by NASCAR (wings, splitter assembly, restrictor plates, shocks, etc., etc.,):
(a) if discovered prior to race, the driver, team and car be required to leave the track ASAP.
(b) if discovered post race, the team and driver will forfeit all monies and points won and be restricted from competing in the next race.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Originally Posted by Mike24
I'm sure Jr fans are in a riot right now. NASCAR is probably getting emails saying YOU STUPID ....... yeah anyways. NASCAR needs to stick to their word, and stick with the penalty. Now, if Eury Jr did not know about this, then who put the illegal part on the wing? He's the one who needs to be fined and suspended, not Eury Jr.

<sigh> Well, Mike, we agreed for awhile, anyway.

It's a simple matter of culpability. Eury Jr. was negligent in his duty to assure that his crew did not make unauthorized changes to the car. This duty is why he gets paid the big bucks.

FWIW, one reporter believes, and I am basically in total agreement, that if a team is found to have made unauthorized changes to safety equipment or to parts specifically mandated by NASCAR (wings, splitter assembly, restrictor plates, shocks, etc., etc.,):
(a) if discovered prior to race, the driver, team and car be required to leave the track ASAP.
(b) if discovered post race, the team and driver will forfeit all monies and points won and be restricted from competing in the next race.

We were bound to disagree at one point.

But, I agree with you on the reporters standards. I think if NASCAR finds something on the car that is illegal, they need to take the car, and make them run a backup. If it is found in the post race, they should forfeit all money and points won. But... restricting them from competing in the next race is kinda iffy to me. That was that race, next week is next weeks race. Now if it re occurs, then yes, I believe you should be restricted from running a couple of races.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Smoke+GibbsFan

Only time will tell if NASCAR will dole out punisment fairly, but I think they did send out a message LOUD and clear. As far as these people making mistakes with these cars......... does anyone think that as much time and effort that goes into every square inch of a race car that anyting slips under the radar?

yes I do. otherwise I would have to claim sabotage when a wheel comes loose in the first laps of an impound race...

[Souporscotty]

Originally Posted by Smoke+GibbsFan

Only time will tell if NASCAR will dole out punisment fairly

I think time has already told.

[Racer X]

It always interests me when teams try to use “intent” as to how severe a penalty should be. I don’t think intent should enter into it at all. If it does, then the judgment becomes subjective and not objective. As we all agree, questions arise whenever a NASCAR decision is subjective. A rule is broken or it isn’t, plain and simple.

I also agree that the 24 team did not get penalized like it should have when Gordon’s car was found too low after the race. Either it was high enough, or it wasn’t. It doesn’t matter if something broke or not. Intent was used to determine the punishment in this case and left everyone pointing the finger. NASCAR screwed up there…..

But I am willing to give NASCAR a fresh start with the COT. Jim Hunter warned the teams: Mess with the COT and prepare for painful consequences. Although I don’t think the #8 team intended to break a rule, they did. And now they must pay the price. The real test will come the next time someone is found in violation. The penalty must be the same. It absolutely must.

[jks812]

Originally Posted by Racer X

It always interests me when teams try to use “intent” as to how severe a penalty should be. I don’t think intent should enter into it at all. If it does, then the judgment becomes subjective and not objective. As we all agree, questions arise whenever a NASCAR decision is subjective. A rule is broken or it isn’t, plain and simple.

I also agree that the 24 team did not get penalized like it should have when Gordon’s car was found too low after the race. Either it was high enough, or it wasn’t. It doesn’t matter if something broke or not. Intent was used to determine the punishment in this case and left everyone pointing the finger. NASCAR screwed up there…..

But I am willing to give NASCAR a fresh start with the COT. Jim Hunter warned the teams: Mess with the COT and prepare for painful consequences. Although I don’t think the #8 team intended to break a rule, they did. And now they must pay the price. The real test will come the next time someone is found in violation. The penalty must be the same. It absolutely must.

I agree 100%. The penalty is not the problem. Like I said earlier, whether it be the COT or the other car, a rule violation is a rule violation and they should be penalized regardless of the violation. The problem is that Nascar isn't consistant with this either. One team gets fined, points reduction and one team gets nothing. Any violation should be penalized regardless of degree of violation, intent or what team. And 100 points and $100,000. sounds like a good number to me, if they keep it the same for all teams, which they won't. Also if they fell inspection after the race they just won, take the win,points, and money away and place them in last place for that race.

[LSC9901]

I'm curious as to why they initially used this improper bracket during testing ??? I'm guessing that NASCAR does not monitor parts used during testing so I would assume that is why and how it happened but why would they use an improper part during testing when they must have known it wasn't the correct part ??

[jks812]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I'm curious as to why they initially used this improper bracket during testing ??? I'm guessing that NASCAR does not monitor parts used during testing so I would assume that is why and how it happened but why would they use an improper part during testing when they must have known it wasn't the correct part ??

I was wondering that too. Maybe they wanted to see how noticable it was and if it would help before they tried it in the race....lol.

[Racer X]

I heard on a radio show yesterday afternoon that these were older brackets used in previous testing sessions. Between then and now, NASCAR came out and changed the specifications which made these brackets outdated and illegal. Why they were not discarded when the new rules came down I don't know.

But I bet it won't happen again!

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Racer X

I heard on a radio show yesterday afternoon that these were older brackets used in previous testing sessions. Between then and now, NASCAR came out and changed the specifications which made these brackets outdated and illegal. Why they were not discarded when the new rules came down I don't know.

But I bet it won't happen again!

If I had to guess .. the car Jr. & Co. brought to Darlington was a car that had been used in testing but that had never raced. Nobody thought to change the brackets before they loaded it in the hauler and once at the track they were completely overlooked until one of the inspectors spotted them.

You're right, It'll be on the checklist from now on...