[Bob Tanner]

When this thing first was announced, I was one of the multitudes which automatically went into a "Damn! NA$CAR's done it again! They're screwing up what's left of NASCAR!"

OK, they've run five races with it, two short tracks, a short track which thinks it's a larger track, a flat track and the infamous Lady in Black. From a purists point of view, I still don't like what the car represents; the races in the 60's and 70's may not have been as close but they were more creditable and MUCH MORE|"STOCK."

But, my opinion of this new car has changed a bit. It might not be stock appearing but it looks a whole lot more "stock" than that twisted up, misshapened, piece of crap NA$CAR allowed that last car to evolve into.

It's apparently hard to drive and almost impossible to get the steering geometry to mirror the previous car, but is that all bad? I've heard and seen many complaints that they'd like to see the racing put back in the driver's hands and let the driver be more than a rider in a vehicle which acts more like a slot car than a race car. It would seem this new car gives us this.

The thing is apparently tough. The number of cars unable to continue after crashes is amazingly low. This leads me to think that besides a durability factor, they may be a little safer. That is a plus.

I've seen more two- and three-wide racing recently than I have before, at the tracks they've run on. One massive plus is not one time have I heard mention of "Aero-push!"

I've seen no lasting evidence that it "levels the playing field." The better financed teams with the better drivers will continue to prevail. Even though Ryan Pemberton announced Sunday morning that the #29 team has run the same car in all the new car races, I doubt if, overall it'll me a major cost-cutting measure. The bigger teams will continue to build specialty cars for virtually every track.

The more things change, the more they remain things.

The big, and final test will be the fall Taladega race. After that we'll know for sure.

I still don't like it but I like it better than the twisted up thing they now run. It's here to stay. Probably it'll be the car they run next season. For better or worse it's what we have and we'll have to deal with it. It could have been worse; NA$CAR could have made the COT a Sego?

[Mike24]

This is just a fact of showing who can accept change or who can't accept change. The fans who have watched NASCAR since the 70's and 80's need to realize we are in 2007, and we have to go foward with the technology, not go backwards with it. As long as we have a car that looks like a car, and races a car, I will accept it. I've watched NASCAR since the 90's, and I enjoyed it then like I do now, but we are in 2007, and NASCAR is moving on with the times. Now, it's just a fact if the fans will move on with the times.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Mike24

This is just a fact of showing who can accept change or who can't accept change. NASCAR is not for you fans who have watched it in the 70's and 80's. We are in 2007, not in the 70's, 80's, or 90's. As long as it looks like a car and races like a car, I will accept it.

So, this "new NA$CAR just isn't for those of us who brought NASCAR to where it is now?

Am I the only one who finds fault with this statement?

You often bring up some intelligent and valid points, Mike. As a long time fan of NASCAR and stock car racing, I would humbly suggest that the one above wasn't one of them.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

So, this "new NA$CAR just isn't for those of us who brought NASCAR to where it is now?

Am I the only one who finds fault with this statement?

You often bring up some intelligent and valid points, Mike. As a long time fan of NASCAR and stock car racing, I would humbly suggest that the one above wasn't one of them.

NASCAR still tries to capture those type of fans. They make a car, try to improve competition, yet the fans who have watched for a long time complain about every single thing NASCAR does to try to improve the sport.

Like I said, technology has advanced, and NASCAR is advancing with technology. Some of the fans that have watched for a long time may not accept it, but NASCAR has to move on with the times, contrary if the older fans think they shouldn't. I have watched NASCAR for a long time, but I realize it's time for NASCAR to move on with the times, and they are. It's just a matter of if the older fans will accept that fact. And from what I'm reading, I don't think that looks like the case. If NASCAR doesn't move on with the times, there will be no NASCAR.

[LSC9901]

Not sure about all of the other old timers but for me I think NASCAR's administrative moves are what most of us are complaining about. I don't care if they go out there on the track with 1932 Fords. If they just run as hard as they can I'll be watching. You can call them winged bricks or whatever. I'm content to watch whatever they run as long as they put on a good show.

Some of the "old timers" are far more knowledgeable than I but I feel like I have adapted rather well to most of the changes. I may not like them all but I can accept them.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

You aren't describing the car style brought out in the '80's by Maynard Troyer, are you?

No, I was in NY in '72-73 and saw them then. Maynard was a popular racer in NY at that time and saw him in a few NE Modified shows. As I remember, he started building cars (modifieds) and then got into NASCAR for a while. I know you can still buy his modified parts but don't remember seeing his name on a car for quite a while...

As I said, the only place I know of them ever being raced is Oswego (and maybe a nearby track or two once or twice). Don't know why they never caught on anywhere else. Oswego is a beautiful track and their modifieds put on great show.

SpaceCadet, I'd love to see them run again. But to answer your question, no I haven't kept up with them -- haven't seen anything on them for several years (last time I saw a Nat'l Speed Sport News.) Right now I've got 2 asphalt cars, a late model and a super late model we're trying to get ready to go racing .. when my son recovers from his back surgery (ruptured disk). We're hoping to be over in Bob's area (Mobile/Opp/Pennsacola) near the end of the summer with the SLM.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

So, this "new NA$CAR just isn't for those of us who brought NASCAR to where it is now?

Am I the only one who finds fault with this statement?

You often bring up some intelligent and valid points, Mike. As a long time fan of NASCAR and stock car racing, I would humbly suggest that the one above wasn't one of them.

a resounding ditto from me...

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by obrien

Nascar doesn't need the support of the ricer punks. This car looks like it wishes it was a riced pos civic. Just bigger.

To me it looks more like the Australian Super Cars with a CTS front end than anything I can think of...

[Mike24]

The point is, I think the older fans need to realize that we are in 2007, not in their generation in the 70's and 80's. NASCAR is moving on with the times, it's just a fact if the older fans will accept that fact. I've watched NASCAR since the 90's, but I realize we are not in the 90's, we are in 2007, and NASCAR needs to move on with the times. Some of the older fans need to realize you can't relive the past, you have to move on with the times. Some do realize this, but there are some others who don't. It's not NASCAR's fault you want to relive the past, NASCAR is just doing what they need to do, move on with the times, and improve the sport.

Yes, I agree that NASCAR needs to remember their older fans who brought them to where they are today. But, it's not NASCAR's fault those older fans choose to try and relive the past, instead of moving on with the times. Like I said, I've watched NASCAR since the 90's, but I realize we are in 2007 and not the 90's, so I as a fan choose to move on with the times with NASCAR.

[LSC9901]

Not real sure what you are smoking Mike but all sports suffer from this same dilemma. The longer you've been a fan the more you desire the past. Red Sox fans would love to have Ted Williams and the likes of him back in the game .... but it isn't going to happen. I'm willing to bet the quarter in my pocket that in 20 years you and many others in your generation will be typing (or whatever they will be doing in 20 years) the same message only to a younger than you crowd.

As I noted in a previous post I believe that many old time fans are upset with the administrative actions that NASCAR takes versus what the teams are doing. Domination by teams may not be enjoyable but it is far more acceptable than some of the rules instituted by Mr. France and gang.

Write it down somewhere Mike ... in 20 years you'll be unhappy with the "current" state of NASCAR or whatever it will be known as then.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Not real sure what you are smoking Mike but all sports suffer from this same dilemma. The longer you've been a fan the more you desire the past. Red Sox fans would love to have Ted Williams and the likes of him back in the game .... but it isn't going to happen. I'm willing to bet the quarter in my pocket that in 20 years you and many others in your generation will be typing (or whatever they will be doing in 20 years) the same message only to a younger than you crowd.

As I noted in a previous post I believe that many old time fans are upset with the administrative actions that NASCAR takes versus what the teams are doing. Domination by teams may not be enjoyable but it is far more acceptable than some of the rules instituted by Mr. France and gang.

Write it down somewhere Mike ... in 20 years you'll be unhappy with the "current" state of NASCAR or whatever it will be known as then.

ok. I've watched NASCAR for 14 going on 15 years. I loved the 90's and the racing we had then. BUT, I realize it's time to move on with the times, and stop wanting to relive the past. Do I desire the past? Yes. Do I realize it's time to move on to the future? Yes. You are right on with my point, the older fans desire the past, but you can not relive the past, you have to move on with the future.

[jks812]

I happen to like the new car. There has been more side by side racing. I haven't noticed quite as much follow the leader. And it does seem that when it hits the wall, it doesn't always scatter all over the place. As for it not really looking stock, when was the last time they did?

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by jks812

I happen to like the new car. There has been more side by side racing. I haven't noticed quite as much follow the leader. And it does seem that when it hits the wall, it doesn't always scatter all over the place. As for it not really looking stock, when was the last time they did?

I agree with you, I like the COT. While it may not look like the old car, atleast it looks like a car, races like a car, has improved competition, and new safety features. The COT will take time, but in the long run, it will be a great car NASCAR built.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Mike24

ok. I've watched NASCAR for 14 going on 15 years. I loved the 90's and the racing we had then. BUT, I realize it's time to move on with the times, and stop wanting to relive the past. Do I desire the past? Yes. Do I realize it's time to move on to the future? Yes. You are right on with my point, the older fans desire the past, but you can not relive the past, you have to move on with the future.

I believe that in the real life (away from the keyboard) we do accept that things move forward but it also nice to be able to communicate with others who liked it better back in the 70's when it wasn't all corporate. Whatever the reason was that they found it better back then is why we desire it to be like it was .... but we move forward even if begrudgingly. Graciously Bob has even admitted that he is growing to like the COT. From the beginning I didn't really care as long as there was competitive racing. It is that way even though HMS dominates. For that I do and don't care. As many say "May the best team win." I guess they are.

[jks812]

Originally Posted by Mike24

The point is, I think the older fans need to realize that we are in 2007, not in their generation in the 70's and 80's. NASCAR is moving on with the times, it's just a fact if the older fans will accept that fact. I've watched NASCAR since the 90's, but I realize we are not in the 90's, we are in 2007, and NASCAR needs to move on with the times.

The biggest thing from the past that I want is the no more lucky dog. Use to if they were down a lap they ran like heck to get it back. Now they don't cause they can get a free pass. Plus when they're down a lap now, they pretty much just have to move and let the lead lap cars, especially the leader go by. Well if you can't pass a lapped car just ride behind it. Of course that's my opinion and I'm sure nobody agrees with it.