[robertlsun]

Then it looks like you have some research to do yourself. My question is only for the percent of wins by the leader of the rainbow brigade.

[SpaceCadet]

Originally Posted by robertlsun

Then it looks like you have some research to do yourself. My question is only for the percent of wins by the leader of the rainbow brigade.

I have no idea if you are addressing me or not, so just in case, this thread is your ballgame. You do the research if you want to be credible.

[blue]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

But you must admit, there are varying degrees of "good". And the very word "good" is subjective. They are definately not all equal, skill wise.

All you have to be is 0.00000001 sec faster than the other guy.

Go Gordo Go..........#24

[robertlsun]

Originally Posted by blue

All you have to be is 0.00000001 sec faster than the other guy.

Go Gordo Go..........#24

NASCAR only measures to 0.01

[LSC9901]

One final warning to all. I have edited a couple of posting due to inappropriate remarks. This will not be tolerated. Any further postings in this nature will just close down this thread and warnings will be issued.

Thanks

[HMS24]

Robert, where have you been getting these stats, I would be curious to run this kind of scrutiny on a number of drivers with a large number of wins. Like say, how many times did Dale Sr. win under caution after dumping somebody on the last lap?

[PettyBlue]

Originally Posted by robertlsun

NASCAR only measures to 0.01

Incorrect statement as NASCAR measures to thousands-0.001 not hundreds-0.01. Example, Jayski's® Silly Season Site - The Budweiser Shootout 2007

[Bob Tanner]

I love stats; they'll tell you whatever you want them to tell you.

That being said, here's the results I came up with after a very brief research trek:

Since Daytona, 2001 Jeffie Pooh has won 19 races. Of those nineteen, the following were won under yellow or red...
2007 Aarons 499
2004 Aarons 499
2004 Brickyard 400
2003 Virgina 500
2003 MBNA 500

A total of five wins in 19 races over a five + year period, or 26%

Jeffie has a total of 77 wins and those 19 wins comprise 24% of his total wins. Extrapolating those figures out, it looks to me as though Jeffie probably has won between 20% and 25 % of his wins under less than green flag conditions. Is that a "huge amount? I guess that would surely be in the eye of the beholder, wouldn't it?

Make of those figures whatever you wish.

P.S. Researching records such as these isn't really all that difficult.

[LSC9901]

I guess I don't quite understand the fuss about yellow flag finishes, especially ones that involve weather. Yellow flag finishes are a part of the sport. Would I like to see it change ??? By all means. As I noted elsewhere there is very little that can be done about the weather, so we need to accept that one. In the case where there is an accident then either red flag the race or extend it. So what if it messes up the gas mileage predictions.

This issue with percentages of wins is one that I agree with Bob on. You can make of those numbers exactly what you want. Liars figure and figures lie. We elect political officials to high ranking offices with far less than 60% at times. These people can affect your lives. Does racing have that much impact on your life ? 25% is nothing. Of that 25% how many were weather related ? There is nothing we could do about that.

[robertlsun]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I guess I don't quite understand the fuss about yellow flag finishes, especially ones that involve weather. Yellow flag finishes are a part of the sport. Would I like to see it change ??? By all means. As I noted elsewhere there is very little that can be done about the weather, so we need to accept that one. In the case where there is an accident then either red flag the race or extend it. So what if it messes up the gas mileage predictions.

This issue with percentages of wins is one that I agree with Bob on. You can make of those numbers exactly what you want. Liars figure and figures lie. We elect political officials to high ranking offices with far less than 60% at times. These people can affect your lives. Does racing have that much impact on your life ? 25% is nothing. Of that 25% how many were weather related ? There is nothing we could do about that.

I disagree, NASCAR makes the decision to sit and wait it out or to call the race. I know of races that they could have sat and waited it out, but decided to call the race. I forget which race it was, but I do remember one race that the track had lights. There was no reason to call that race, except for the fact that Jeff Gordon was the one in the lead at that time. The issue with yellow flags is that either Jeff Gordon is the luckiest guy in racing or someone up in the office really likes him. Jeff Gordon has benefited from the caution more than any other driver I have ever seen and this will be my 31st year watching the Cup series. For example, the last 2 races, Jeff really benefited from yellow flags. Do you agree?

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by robertlsun

Then I guess you need to start your own thread and get those stats for yourself. I started this thread with a serious question, in which you were no help to the "real" question here.

Now, can anyone provide the stats in question or is everyone going to try to justify why some silly little boy from Indiana is being called one of the best drivers in the sport when a HUGE percent of his wins were manipulated in his favor?

This post was for a "serious" question. Not to have all you Gordon fans come in here and try to side track it!

Go make your own threads for that.

Uh-oh! I'm not touching this one!

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by robertlsun

I disagree, NASCAR makes the decision to sit and wait it out or to call the race. I know of races that they could have sat and waited it out, but decided to call the race. I forget which race it was, but I do remember one race that the track had lights. There was no reason to call that race, except for the fact that Jeff Gordon was the one in the lead at that time. The issue with yellow flags is that either Jeff Gordon is the luckiest guy in racing or someone up in the office really likes him. Jeff Gordon has benefited from the caution more than any other driver I have ever seen and this will be my 31st year watching the Cup series. For example, the last 2 races, Jeff really benefited from yellow flags. Do you agree?

robert, is there a possibility that you have an obsession with Jeffy-Pooh's success?

Since you are vague about which race they called in order that Jeffy could be declared the winner, I can't offer a rebuttal. However, for all of their multitude of vaults, I've found NA$CAR to be pretty realistic on their decisions to either stop, or continue races (the one a couple years ago which lasted until 0200 being a notable exception).

As far as his benefiting from the yellow flag more than any other driver...? You obviously have kept a closer watch on this than I have so I'll defer to your wisdom. But I'd venture to say that many of the ABJ's (Anybody But Junior), the ABS's (Stewart) or the ABBB's (Busch Brothers) would say the same thing about the driver they love to hate. In fact, about the ONLY driver out there who can honestly claim he seldom profits from a caution flag would be David Ragan; he's usually the cause of a caution.

I will say that your particular take on this subject makes interesting reading.

[robertlsun]

Originally Posted by PettyBlue

Incorrect statement as NASCAR measures to thousands-0.001 not hundreds-0.01. Example, Jayski's® Silly Season Site - The Budweiser Shootout 2007

I wanted to wait till tonights qualifying to correct this even though I was positive I was correct, just to be on that safe side. But...

NASCAR does not measure in speed, NASCAR measures in seconds. They do not measure seconds in thousands-0.001, as Pettyblue has stated, They measure in hundreds-0.01. What Pettyblue has stated is the conversion of that timing to MPH. Some websites will show a time in thousands, but that is not the official NASCAR timing. If you feel I am wrong, just tune into the next NASCAR Cup qualifying.

[robertlsun]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

robert, is there a possibility that you have an obsession with Jeffy-Pooh's success?

Since you are vague about which race they called in order that Jeffy could be declared the winner, I can't offer a rebuttal. However, for all of their multitude of vaults, I've found NA$CAR to be pretty realistic on their decisions to either stop, or continue races (the one a couple years ago which lasted until 0200 being a notable exception).

As far as his benefiting from the yellow flag more than any other driver...? You obviously have kept a closer watch on this than I have so I'll defer to your wisdom. But I'd venture to say that many of the ABJ's (Anybody But Junior), the ABS's (Stewart) or the ABBB's (Busch Brothers) would say the same thing about the driver they love to hate. In fact, about the ONLY driver out there who can honestly claim he seldom profits from a caution flag would be David Ragan; he's usually the cause of a caution.

I will say that your particular take on this subject makes interesting reading.

I could careless about any drivers success, really. I just want to see them win the race with no advantage, period. I am not alone on this issue, I am sure you know this. Even my 62 year old mother is sick of it and she is the last person I know that would criticize any driver for his success. But, she has considered to stop watching the Cup series because of this very same opinion.

[wingkey1]

There's a whole other possible side to this.

Maybe races have been shortened or finished under caution as mercy to the other drivers(?). Few enjoy the runaways any more.

Or, maybe some races were finished under caution, or shortened so a certain driver couldn't win.

Hmmm. The plot thickens.