[robertlsun]

Originally Posted by Phils20

77 wins is 77 wins. Who flippin cares. My God, these drivers would laugh if they read some of this stuff!!!

I'm sure they all give Jeff a good ribbing over all the boos (and booze), every time they hear it. Doesn't anyone get the fact that these guys, with a few exceptions, are all at least nice to one another, if not great friends. The trust you need in each other to race that close is just amazing.

Plus they all do so many appearences together, the families travel together, kids play together. It's cool not to like a driver, but to rip someone with 77 wins is just silly.

One could say, "How many wins did Sr knock someone out of the way to get"?

How many rain shortened wins? (Like my driver Bobby @ the Southern 500)

How many times did the first place driver have a blown motor or flat tire? (Like Bobby's last win @ homestead)

There are many ways to discredit another driver, or even the sport, if you try hard enough. The record says 77, and that is good enough for me.

Then I guess you need to start your own thread and get those stats for yourself. I started this thread with a serious question, in which you were no help to the "real" question here.

Now, can anyone provide the stats in question or is everyone going to try to justify why some silly little boy from Indiana is being called one of the best drivers in the sport when a HUGE percent of his wins were manipulated in his favor?

This post was for a "serious" question. Not to have all you Gordon fans come in here and try to side track it!

Go make your own threads for that.

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by robertlsun

Then I guess you need to start your own thread and get those stats for yourself. I started this thread with a serious question, in which you were no help to the "real" question here.

Now, can anyone provide the stats in question or is everyone going to try to justify why some silly little boy from Indiana is being called one of the best drivers in the sport when a HUGE percent of his wins were manipulated in his favor?

This post was for a "serious" question. Not to have all you Gordon fans come in here and try to side track it!

Go make your own threads for that.

No need (to provide the stats). It appears it is already clearly known that a huge % is the answer. Much more huge than any other driver on the all time top 10, 20, or more win list.

[robertlsun]

The exact amount will be nice to have. So I can provide it with confidence while I am shutting up all those rainbow loving braggers.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by robertlsun

The exact amount will be nice to have. So I can provide it with confidence while I am shutting up all those rainbow loving braggers.

Have YOU tried researching the answer ????

[robertlsun]

lmao, wouldnt you call this thread, "researching" the answer? Of course I have and I am at this very moment. This is not the only forum or place I have looked for the answer. Someone in this world will know this answer. I will find that answer. So, yes, I am and have researched this myself. But thank you for your interest.

Originally Posted by wingkey1

No need (to provide the stats). It appears it is already clearly known that a huge % is the answer. Much more huge than any other driver on the all time top 10, 20, or more win list.

I'm going with this. The person who started this thread (robertlson?), has CLEARLY stated that the number is HUGE. So HUGE that there is simply no further reason to question or refute his knowledge and information.

JG, 24, or however one might refer to him is clearly a no account, miserable, fake who could no more drive a skateboard than any kind of powered vehicle.

All participants in the sport who have ever, at any time, given him credit for having any kind of talent whatsoever are mistaken, uninformed, wrong, and beyond that - cannot possibley know what they are talking about.

I think this case is settled. And should he EVER win or near win another race in his or our lifetime - well we'll just have to all re-evaluate our position.

This is HUGE
In any case the kids a loser, rainbow and all.


Posted by wingkey1

[HMS24]

You must be one of those fans against Gordon. Got the sticker on yer pick-em up truck?
It's so much more fun to hate a driver and seek out bad things to say, rather than promoting your own favorite.

[robertlsun]

First of all, I wouldn't ever put a bumper sticker on my BMW 325i and second of all, I am just trying to get a stat here. Does the truth hurt all you Gordon fans?

This is what "my" research has come up with so far...

11 out his 77 wins, I can say for sure were either under green, white, checker conditions or stopped early because of rain. There are still more wins that I cant account for that finished under caution, prior to the green, white, checker rule was imposed. Here is my list so far...

Atlanta Motor Speedway - Laps/Total Laps: 325/328 – Green, white, checker

03/12/1995 Golden Corral 500 - Earnings: $104,950

Atlanta Motor Speedway - Laps/Total Laps: 325/221 – Rain shortened

11/08/1998 Bass Pro Shops MBNA 500 - Earnings: $164,450



Bristol Motor Speedway - Laps/Total Laps: 500/342 – Rain shortened

03/31/1996 Food City 500 - Earnings: $83,765



Chicagoland Speedway - Laps/Total Laps: 267/270 – Green, white, checker

07/09/2006 USG Sheetrock 400 - Earnings: $327,761


Darlington Raceway - Laps/Total Laps: 367/293 – Rain shortened

03/24/1996 Carolina Dodge Dealers 500 - Earnings: $97,310


Daytona International Speedway - Laps/Total Laps: 250/203 – Rain shortened

02/20/2005 Daytona 500 - Earnings: $1,497,154


Indianapolis Motor Speedway - Laps/Total Laps: 160/161 – Green, white, checker

08/08/2004 Brickyard 400 - Earnings: $518,053


Lowe's Motor Speedway - Laps/Total Laps: 400/333 – Rain shortened

05/25/1997 Coca-Cola 600 - Earnings: $224,900


Talladega Superspeedway - Laps/Total Laps: 188/192 – Green, white, checker

04/29/2007 Aaron's 499 - Earnings: $355,511

Talladega Superspeedway - Laps/Total Laps: 188/139 – Rain shortened

05/01/2005 Aaron's 499 - Earnings: $365,116

Talladega Superspeedway - Laps/Total Laps: 188/129 – Rain shortened

07/28/1996 Talladega 500 - Earnings: $272,550


That's 14% of his wins so far. I am sure I will find more and get that percent above 25%. His winnings under those conditions, total a whopping $4,011,520. Not so golden anymore huh?

[LSC9901]

Congratulations on your research so far.

One word of caution to all. Once again a Jeff Gordon thread is leaning towards early closure due to member fighting. Fair warning to all who desire to post !!! Keep it on topic and NO member bashing. Opinions are encouraged. Keep in mind that everyone has an opinion and all WILL BE RESPECTED.

Thanks

[wingkey1]

Wow. Interesting that none show as having finished under yellow. That's surprising. Then again, maybe not. Since NASCAR began either red flagging then restarting, or "green, white, checker(ing)" races, near none are actually finished under yellow any more. Likely many of the "older" drivers will be found to have a greater number of "under yellow" finishes.

And interestingly enough, rain shortened races actually would have "finished" under green.

The "green, white, checker" is essentially a "green" finish.

Would be really interesting to know who the leader was when the green white checker began.

Will be really interesting to see the driver to driver match to see just who, in the end did have the greater number of "under yellow" finishes. Untill then, well we just won't know.

[HMS24]

Boy, all those rain shortened races he's won, kinda makes you wonder if God is a Gordon fan. Rain shortened races do kinda suck, changes strategy, gotta get to the front before the rain hits. But, if you stay out and the rain misses, might have no gas and no tires in front of the pack, get youorself run over. However, I don't think the rain or Nascar favor Gordon over any other drivers.

[robertlsun]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

Wow. Interesting that none show as having finished under yellow. That's surprising. Then again, maybe not. Since NASCAR began either red flagging then restarting, or "green, white, checker(ing)" races, near none are actually finished under yellow any more. Likely many of the "older" drivers will be found to have a greater number of "under yellow" finishes.

And interestingly enough, rain shortened races actually would have "finished" under green.

The "green, white, checker" is essentially a "green" finish.

Would be really interesting to know who the leader was when the green white checker began.

Will be really interesting to see the driver to driver match to see just who, in the end did have the greater number of "under yellow" finishes. Untill then, well we just won't know.

Those that finished under yellow are those races that I need to complete my list. The green, white, check rule was implimented in 2004. I know for a fact that he won races prior to that rule under caution flag conditions and those, once again, are the races that will complete my list and take it over my projected 25%.

[robertlsun]

Here is a interesting fact I just found...

"A controversial finish to the 2004 Nextel Cup Aaron's 499 occurred as Jeff Gordon and Dale Earnhardt, Jr. were racing for the lead with five laps remaining. The field was working Lap 184 of 188, beyond the point of when a red flag could halt the race (the last red flag lap was 184). As Earnhardt, Jr. was passing Gordon for the lead, Brian Vickers spun in turn three. When the caution was displayed, freezing the field, it was determined that Gordon's car was just ahead of Earnhardt's, and Gordon was scored as the leader, and thus, the winner. On the final lap, some angry fans again threw debris (seat cushions, alcoholic beverage bottles) on the track at Gordon, which angered Fox commentators Chris Myers and Jeff Hammond."

Jeff Gordon had a role in the implementation of that rule, lmao. Flashback huh?

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by robertlsun

That's 14% of his wins so far. I am sure I will find more and get that percent above 25%. His winnings under those conditions, total a whopping $4,011,520. Not so golden anymore huh?

As a side note ... someone was going to win those races no matter what. He was good enough to be in the lead at the point of caution. Even NASCAR in, their infinite wisdom, has yet to figure out how to control the weather, although I do question how they managed to pull off a race in November in Loudon NH. (2001)

[SpaceCadet]

Originally Posted by robertlsun

Here is a interesting fact I just found...

"A controversial finish to the 2004 Nextel Cup Aaron's 499 occurred as Jeff Gordon and Dale Earnhardt, Jr. were racing for the lead with five laps remaining. The field was working Lap 184 of 188, beyond the point of when a red flag could halt the race (the last red flag lap was 184). As Earnhardt, Jr. was passing Gordon for the lead, Brian Vickers spun in turn three. When the caution was displayed, freezing the field, it was determined that Gordon's car was just ahead of Earnhardt's, and Gordon was scored as the leader, and thus, the winner. On the final lap, some angry fans again threw debris (seat cushions, alcoholic beverage bottles) on the track at Gordon, which angered Fox commentators Chris Myers and Jeff Hammond."

Jeff Gordon had a role in the implementation of that rule, lmao. Flashback huh?

I think what's more amazing is that apparently Gordon is psychic and new that he and only he would ever finish under those circumstances and only he would ever benefit from that rule. Holy cow, I wish I could do that.

I'm sure in your research you will find and post for us the % of "questionable" finishes for the other drivers. That stat means pretty much zippo on its own, with nothing to compare it to. If it turns out that Richard Petty completed 30% of his wins under the circumstances in question, then I guess Gordon doesn't fare so badly. I, for one, would like to see where they all stack up, just for sh!!s and giggles.