[DaBigManOnCampus]

With Matt Kenseth winning yesterday, every race has been won by a full time Nextel Cup Driver in the Busch Series, Or I like to call it now the Nextel 2 Division. It just looks more and more like Nextel Cup where you see stars like Kyle Busch and Jeff Burton, Kevin Harvick, (defending champ), Matt Kenseth, and everybody else. Something is wrong with this work if you ask me, but I can say that Nascar should make a limit on how many of these Buschwhackers can race if you decide to race full time on Nextel Cup. To me it is getting really annoying now... Busch is the place where you are supposed to prove your self to get up to Nextel Cup, not Nextel Cup Drivers using this as Target Practice....

[LSC9901]

The can is once again open and the worms are about to break free !!!!!

[BringBackWilkesboro]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

The can is once again open and the worms are about to break free !!!!!

I'm not gonna complain this week. Free Curly fries at Arby's for everyone in america on Monday!

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by BringBackWilkesboro

I'm not gonna complain this week. Free Curly fries at Arby's for everyone in america on Monday!

And wouldn't you know it .... NO Arby's where I live !!!

[Nevadastars]

The only good I see to come out of this, is that if provides for a full field. By my calculations, there were 22 Cup regulars in yesterdays race in a 43 car field, with only 1 car that did not qualify. So, only 21 Busch regulars would have started, plus the one car that DNQ. Thats a pretty slim field on a superspeedway.

I guess the standard answer to that is, since the cars are obviously built, have up and coming drivers in them instead of the Cup regulars.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Nevadastars

The only good I see to come out of this, is that if provides for a full field. By my calculations, there were 22 Cup regulars in yesterdays race in a 43 car field, with only 1 car that did not qualify. So, only 21 Busch regulars would have started, plus the one car that DNQ. Thats a pretty slim field on a superspeedway.

Don't you believe that part of that problem would change if Busch teams KNEW that only "X" many spots would be filled by cup drivers ???

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Don't you believe that part of that problem would change if Busch teams KNEW that only "X" many spots would be filled by cup drivers ???

These new up and coming drivers realise they will be in the shadows of the Cup drivers. So, what else can they do? I think if NASCAR just gets rid of Cup drivers in Busch all together, NASCAR would find that there is more competition, and the winner would be unpredictable each week. Lets face it, either Edwards, Kenseth, Harvick, or Hamlin wins the Busch races. That isn't fun knowing who would win. NASCAR would find out they would make more money in the long run.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Mike24

These new up and coming drivers realise they will be in the shadows of the Cup drivers. So, what else can they do? I think if NASCAR just gets rid of Cup drivers in Busch all together, NASCAR would find that there is more competition, and the winner would be unpredictable each week. Lets face it, either Edwards, Kenseth, Harvick, or Hamlin wins the Busch races. That isn't fun knowing who would win. NASCAR would find out they would make more money in the long run.

Your theory is good but it just isn't practical. The reason (or at least one of them) cup drivers are in Busch is because they bring in more money. I would say go back 15 years and see what kind of $$ they were taking in in comparison to what they do today. In a large part it is because people get to see the cup drivers in action for a somewhat lesser price. With all that said I am in favor of ZERO cup drivers in Busch. It would grow after a while, but never to the status it now enjoys. The problem is that I look at Busch as a training ground and NA$CAR looks at it as a money pit. Who wins this battle ???

[DaBigManOnCampus]

Originally Posted by Mike24

These new up and coming drivers realise they will be in the shadows of the Cup drivers. So, what else can they do? I think if NASCAR just gets rid of Cup drivers in Busch all together, NASCAR would find that there is more competition, and the winner would be unpredictable each week. Lets face it, either Edwards, Kenseth, Harvick, or Hamlin wins the Busch races. That isn't fun knowing who would win. NASCAR would find out they would make more money in the long run.

The thing is these are the minor leagues and truthfully I would like see racers trying to get rides permanently in the Nextel Cup, I mean to me it gets repetitive and annoying after awhile and just dont make sense to me. Yes its money, but they are taking away chances for true Busch drivers to try out on the power Nextel Cup teams 4 or 5 is fine with me but 22!?! that gets too much for me.

[BringBackWilkesboro]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Don't you believe that part of that problem would change if Busch teams KNEW that only "X" many spots would be filled by cup drivers ???

That gets me to thinking. If NASCAR gave a damn about it's future talent, wouldn't it be easy just to let the fastest few cup drivers in the race? That's that easiest and most efficient way to solve this issue in my mind.

[Lefty Noob]

Originally Posted by BringBackWilkesboro

That gets me to thinking. If NASCAR gave a damn about it's future talent, wouldn't it be easy just to let the fastest few cup drivers in the race? That's that easiest and most efficient way to solve this issue in my mind.

I don't know if it's here or there, but I'd love to see the Busch Series event be a "play-in" race for the Nextel Cup. Leave a qualifying spot open, and anyone who didn't qualify, including Busch regulars, could run the race to try and earn a position in the Nextel race. What do you guys think? It'd keep the bigger name Cup drivers out and would add drama to the event.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Lefty Noob

I don't know if it's here or there, but I'd love to see the Busch Series event be a "play-in" race for the Nextel Cup. Leave a qualifying spot open, and anyone who didn't qualify, including Busch regulars, could run the race to try and earn a position in the Nextel race. What do you guys think? It'd keep the bigger name Cup drivers out and would add drama to the event.

Not as great as you might expect. There are 43 slots open for the cup races and about 53 teams. So now you'd be guaranteed that 10 cup drivers would be in the busch race. The other issue is that they really are two different cars so why should you earn a spot in one race with a different car ???

NOPE I think Busch should be Busch and cup should be cup and only the 43 fastest at that.

Somebody stop me .. I'm gonna go on a rampage here !!

[Bob Tanner]

I don't want to go on a rant here, but...

Turning the Busch Series into Cup Lite is wrong on multiple levels.

First, and most important, it's killing a good developmental series which has roots that goes back to NASCAR's beginning.

Let's take the year 1994, for example:

In 1994 BGN ran 28 races. I believe only 18 of those were ran in conjunction with Cup races. I don't have attendance figures but I believe that the average was probably around 15K-18K. (Probably about what IRL is today)

During that season they filled every field and a total of 105 drivers ran races in the series. Of those 105 I can identify the following Cup drivers who ran, with the number of starts they had in parenthesis:
Terry Labonte (20), Mark Martin (15), Harry Gant (11), Dale Earnhardt (12), Bobby Labonte (12), Dale Jarrett (11), Kenny Schrader (10), Mike Waltrip (9), Joe Nemechek (11), Sterling Marlin (9), Morgan Shephard (, Ernie Irvan (7), and Bill Elliott (1). Only two Cup teams fielded BGN cars, Roush (Martin) and Hendrick (Terry Labonte).

Lots of entries in each race, lots of drivers and BGN was doing well. Not on a par with Cup, mind you, but doing better than just surviving.

Last year they managed to fill every field, but Cup Raiders comprised between 40 and 50% of every race which accompanied a Cup race. Twenty-nine teams came from either Cup owners or had Cup affiliations. The only BGN regular (no cup affiliation) to win was David Gilliland. The highest a non-affiliated BGN driver finished in points was 12th (John Andretti). Attendence: They filled the stands at the races which were stand-alones and it was only slightly better at races the day before the Cup race.

NASCAR and its lackeys are complaining that if the Cup Raiders weren't present the Series'd die? It seemed to do OK thirteen years ago.

The second level of wrongness is the fact that the Cup Raiders get extra practice for both the Cup Lite cars and the Cup cars. On qualification day they practice in the Cup Lite cars, then another hour in the Cup car. Then they jump back into the Cup Lite car and qualify, after transferring any knowledge they gain from the Cup car to the Cup Lite car.

Answer: The new race car may slow this down for a couple years, until the mega-teams clamor enough for NASCAR to use the new race car in the <insert new sponsor> Series. Solution is to make the <insert new sponsor> Series car COMPLETELY different from the Cup car. Possible answer would be to either go to pony cars (Camaros, Mustangs, etc), or simply run different type suspension (springs, shocks, etc) and/or tires (Hoosier, Firestone, etc.).

Just my personal take on the situation.

[Nevadastars]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Don't you believe that part of that problem would change if Busch teams KNEW that only "X" many spots would be filled by cup drivers ???

I think a BIG part of the problem is sponsor pressure. If you were funding a top shelf Busch team, would you want a high profile driver in the seat that has a legitimate chance to win, or a relative unknown with limited experience?

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Nevadastars

I think a BIG part of the problem is sponsor pressure. If you were funding a top shelf Busch team, would you want a high profile driver in the seat that has a legitimate chance to win, or a relative unknown with limited experience?

BINGO! A gigantic part of the problem, Don. And feeding this problem is the fact the the "top shelf teams," as you mentioned above, are all either Cup owned or Cup affiliated.

There surely must be an answer for this part of the problem but I'm not sure exactly what it is. I tend to lean toward the making the cars in each series so different that information from one series will not transfer over to the other. But I'm probably way off base.

But I do know that there is something really, really wrong when a driver and owner comes over from a senior series and virtually ties up the series in the first half of the season. There are armpits that smell better than that!