[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

BINGO! A gigantic part of the problem, Don. And feeding this problem is the fact the the "top shelf teams," as you mentioned above, are all either Cup owned or Cup affiliated.

There surely must be an answer for this part of the problem but I'm not sure exactly what it is. I tend to lean toward the making the cars in each series so different that information from one series will not transfer over to the other. But I'm probably way off base.

But I do know that there is something really, really wrong when a driver and owner comes over from a senior series and virtually ties up the series in the first half of the season. There are armpits that smell better than that!

Another easy solution that would at the very least deter cup drivers would be to race in two different locations. That way the cars wouldn't have to change but the travel alone would make them think twice.

[BringBackWilkesboro]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Answer: The new race car may slow this down for a couple years, until the mega-teams clamor enough for NASCAR to use the new race car in the <insert new sponsor> Series. Solution is to make the <insert new sponsor> Series car COMPLETELY different from the Cup car. Possible answer would be to either go to pony cars (Camaros, Mustangs, etc), or simply run different type suspension (springs, shocks, etc) and/or tires (Hoosier, Firestone, etc.).

I like it. Run some Pony cars on the oval tracks and bring them back to the fans who appreciate them. But unfortunately, NASCAR would have to make the cars more stock oriented for there to be any difference. That means they would be different, and we all know that wouldn't be fair.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by BringBackWilkesboro

I like it. Run some Pony cars on the oval tracks and bring them back to the fans who appreciate them. But unfortunately, NASCAR would have to make the cars more stock oriented for there to be any difference. That means they would be different, and we all know that wouldn't be fair.

We have outcome-based education in our schools and we can see how great and successful that's been. Now, NASCAR brings us outcome-based racing. Everything must be level and "fair."
If you use ingenuity and ambition, you're penalized. If you show any emotion other than a happy and positive one, you're taken to the trailer and chastised.
Tracks are attempted to be located in places which are very vocal about not wanting them (square peg in round hole syndrome?), while historic and traditional races are taken from established tracks, for the sake of "market." (Can you say, "Southern 500?)

To paraphrase the title of a really stupid movie, "Hey Dude! Where's my NASCAR?"

[wardfan]

how about the cup drivers have to qualify driving backwards

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by DaBigManOnCampus

With Matt Kenseth winning yesterday, every race has been won by a full time Nextel Cup Driver in the Busch Series, Or I like to call it now the Nextel 2 Division. It just looks more and more like Nextel Cup where you see stars like Kyle Busch and Jeff Burton, Kevin Harvick, (defending champ), Matt Kenseth, and everybody else. Something is wrong with this work if you ask me, but I can say that Nascar should make a limit on how many of these Buschwhackers can race if you decide to race full time on Nextel Cup. To me it is getting really annoying now... Busch is the place where you are supposed to prove your self to get up to Nextel Cup, not Nextel Cup Drivers using this as Target Practice....

I agree, and started a similar thread several weeks ago.

[jks812]

I'm not gonna say there shouldn't be any cup drivers in it. I do think they should have the top 40 spots for busch regulars and let the cup drivers go for the last three spots. I also say limit how many they can be in. As I said before, limit it to 5 races each. If 20 cup drivers show up to qualify, take the fastest 3 and all of em have one less race left they can be in. I use to love to watch the busch races to see who might be moving up. Now it's just a practice for the cup drivers. Nascar has made the busch series a joke.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Another easy solution that would at the very least deter cup drivers would be to race in two different locations. That way the cars wouldn't have to change but the travel alone would make them think twice.

this is the only way they can "legally" stop Cup drivers from racing in the Busch series. a Cup driver's license is good in ANY NA$CAR division. to prohibit a more senior series driver from competing in 'lesser" division would require restructuring the entire NA$CAR licensing 'cause the teams also have to be licensed to participate in a particular division.

Originally Posted by jks812

I'm not gonna say there shouldn't be any cup drivers in it. I do think they should have the top 40 spots for busch regulars and let the cup drivers go for the last three spots. I also say limit how many they can be in. As I said before, limit it to 5 races each. If 20 cup drivers show up to qualify, take the fastest 3 and all of em have one less race left they can be in. I use to love to watch the busch races to see who might be moving up. Now it's just a practice for the cup drivers. Nascar has made the busch series a joke.

so, how do you determine who's a "regular" and who isn't? Harvick was a "Busch regular" last year .. he ran the entire schedule and was running for the championship. are you saying he shouldn't be allowed to do that?

[jks812]

Nope not saying that. To me busch regular is one that runs the entire season. I have no problem with them doing that. Maybe Kevin should always run busch, at least he can do something there.
I enjoyed last weekends busch race, cause since cup was off, the field wasn't 50% cup drivers. That's what I would like to see, cut down the number of cup drivers in a busch race. But I don't know, maybe some of em feel like they need to run busch in order to run good.

[DaBigManOnCampus]

Look, make a limit of Cup Drivers each race, what each Nextel full timer can race and most of all, dont put them in the points race, it reall do not make sense what these people are really thinking about the NASCAR Board, yes a powerhouse Busch team would be nice, but that would'nt matter much unless if we get rid of this buschwhacking we see all around the BGN, I really starting to get irritated about this...

[oncea3fan]

Originally Posted by DaBigManOnCampus

Look, make a limit of Cup Drivers each race, what each Nextel full timer can race and most of all, dont put them in the points race, it reall do not make sense what these people are really thinking about the NASCAR Board, yes a powerhouse Busch team would be nice, but that would'nt matter much unless if we get rid of this buschwhacking we see all around the BGN, I really starting to get irritated about this...

problem with this is if you limit the number of cup teams ,it just makes it even more gravey for the cups that get in.cause there would be less maga teams to complete against them.

you need to eliminate cup drivers all together. in todays nascar, how many cup stars would have burned out trying to get started in busch ???

a busch/truck lisense should be good for those series and 5 cup starts,a cup lisense should be good for cup only and require 2 years busch/truck, and return the of busch / truck lisense.

one way only......................up!

[jks812]

I agree, I would like to see them take all the cup drivers out. But they are not gonna do that. Like it or not, the cup drivers in it are what sells the tickets and all, or so nascar feels. I think if they limited it 3 cup drivers to a race, the busch drivers could handle that. I do wish they would do something to get a handle on it. But as long as they are making the kind of money off it they are making now, they'll leave like it is. Before long it'll do good to have even 1 regular busch driver in it.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by jks812

I agree, I would like to see them take all the cup drivers out. But they are not gonna do that. Like it or not, the cup drivers in it are what sells the tickets and all, or so nascar feels. I think if they limited it 3 cup drivers to a race, the busch drivers could handle that. I do wish they would do something to get a handle on it. But as long as they are making the kind of money off it they are making now, they'll leave like it is. Before long it'll do good to have even 1 regular busch driver in it.

I still say the best way is to return to the rules of yesteryear.

Back when BGN ran a short wheelbase and a different engine, you might have a maximum of two or three Cup drivers enter, just for kicks, or for show money. When they make the BGN car virtual clones of the Cup cars, coupled with the fact that the BGN sponsors began to demand Cup drivers, thing deteriorated into the Cup Lite Series we have today.

I admit that I don't have a good handle on a workable solution but the Barry Goldwater in me wants to go back to the way things were.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Back when BGN ran a short wheelbase and a different engine, you might have a maximum of two or three Cup drivers enter, just for kicks, or for show money.

How much shorter Bob? I thought Busch series cars still had shorter wheel bases and different engines?

[Jeffrey4318]

Lets remove the Cup drivers all together. That way we can remove the whole Busch series all togeter. I'm sorry guys but with no Cup drivers then there would be no viewers then there would be no sponsorship $$$. The average Nascar fan isn't like you or I, they like watching Kenseth, Edwards, Harvick, Hammlin, ect... in the Busch races every Saturday. Hell I'm a big Labonte fan and I love watching him race on Saturdays as well. Do I agree with the cup drivers, not entirely, but if they weren't there then there would be nothing to watch on Saturdays. When was the last time you watch a AAA MLB minor league game on National TV? Hell when was the last time you cared about a minor league game?

I wouldn't get rid of the Cuppies entirely I would just limit them to 10 races each a year. What I would do is only allow a driver 1 entry per weekend. That way if you are entered into the Cup race then you cannot enter into the busch race and vice versa. Then give each driver 10 weekends of their choosing where they can have multiple entries. Once they have used all then then they can't use anymore. This should spread the Cup drivers out pretty evenly through out the year. We get more competition from the Busch guys, while we still get to watch some of our favorite cup drivers. Also we will get a true BGN Champ.

[Tuck4Bama]

Originally Posted by DaBigManOnCampus

Look, make a limit of Cup Drivers each race, what each Nextel full timer can race and most of all, dont put them in the points race, it reall do not make sense what these people are really thinking about the NASCAR Board, yes a powerhouse Busch team would be nice, but that would'nt matter much unless if we get rid of this buschwhacking we see all around the BGN, I really starting to get irritated about this...

I agree 100%. Let them race if they want but do not let cup drivers interfere with bush points. They should not be awarded points in both divisions, you either earn cup points or bush points.