[Bob Tanner]

Here are a couple of postulates which I've lifted from the Morning Drive show on SIRIUS. I thought that they might stimulate discussion and thought

#1... NASCAR should limit the number of tires used in a Cup race, much as they do in Cup Lite.

#2... The "fan vote driver" (a.k.a. "Pity Pass) starting spot in the Winston is one of the most idiotic rules connected with NASCAR.

Disclaimer: I don't necessarily agree with, or disagree with either of the above. I'm just throwing them out there for thought and disucssion.

[wingkey1]

OK re: #1 - all in favor of more control by NASCAR, vote aye.

re: #2 - all in favor of NASCAR taking fan opinion/participation/say out of the event, vote it out


Then there's the -

Let's see - limit the tires - I say tricycles are too unstable and would be detrimental to the level of competition.

[LSC9901]

Other than team expense I'm not sure I understand the limitation on tires in the lite series. I suppose it balances out the amount of $$$ that can be spent by mega cup teams versus the little guys.

The fan pity pass is just one of the idiotic rules from NASCAR but if I could vote on it, it would be gone.

[Gotham Dark Knight]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

OK re: #1 - all in favor of more control by NASCAR, vote aye.

re: #2 - all in favor of NASCAR taking fan opinion/participation/say out of the event, vote it out


Then there's the -

Let's see - limit the tires - I say tricycles are too unstable and would be detrimental to the level of competition.

Yes, but its countered by the level of excitment that driving on three wheels would generate...heck the NFL added a two point conversion...that's about the same right?

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Here are a couple of postulates which I've lifted from the Morning Drive show on SIRIUS. I thought that they might stimulate discussion and thought

#1... NASCAR should limit the number of tires used in a Cup race, much as they do in Cup Lite.

#2... The "fan vote driver" (a.k.a. "Pity Pass) starting spot in the Winston is one of the most idiotic rules connected with NASCAR.

Disclaimer: I don't necessarily agree with, or disagree with either of the above. I'm just throwing them out there for thought and disucssion.

Disagree with #1. Why should we limit the tires? That's just stupid.

I agree with #2. It's just stupid.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Mike24

Disagree with #1. Why should we limit the tires? That's just stupid.

I agree with #2. It's just stupid.

But what if limiting tires is because of financial reasons which in turn evens out the teams somewhat ?

[Phils20]

Rule 1 could work. Sems to wrk OK in Busch! It would even up the money a bit, just like the COT rules out most Aero advantage.

Rule 2. No way should there be a fan vote. The rules are what they are. It should be a winners only club!

I really liked having David Poole go off about that! That was a fun show the other day.

[PettyBlue]

The fan vote to invert the field sucks also.Sandbaggers dream.

[Phils20]

Yep, that rule sucks too! Just some more Hollywood to go with your racing!

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Phils20

Rule 1 could work. Sems to wrk OK in Busch! It would even up the money a bit, just like the COT rules out most Aero advantage.

Rule 2. No way should there be a fan vote. The rules are what they are. It should be a winners only club!

I really liked having David Poole go off about that! That was a fun show the other day.

I made it a point to not plagiarize David's postulates and gave the show credit in my offering here.

IRT #1... I think that it would help the less-funded teams and save them beau coup money. The problem is that there are no more lesser-funded team which are realistically competitive. The prevailing attitude by NASCAR, and a frightening number of fans is: "If you don't have millions and millions, we don't really want you in our "club." In the words of Marie Antoinette, "Let them eat cake!"

IRT #2... I agree with David. Emotions have no place in deciding who starts a race. The Winston is for winners, not popular drivers or the driver who sells the most tee-shirts. However, I also side with Poole that IF they continue this silly "Pity Pass" crap, let's get together and vote in James Harvey Hylton. Letting a 72 year old start the Winston would be...? Kind of like voting Sanjaya in for a starting spot; competition-wise, absolutely useless.

The postulate I left out was his idea that the BGN Series should mirror the cars we see on the streets. Make it a Series devoted to Honda, Mitsubishi, and all these other "rice rockets" which go sliding around the corners, sounding like a swarm of demented bees. You know the ones, those which exhaust extensions the size of Dinty Moore Beef Stew cans.

The argument is that (a) It would really bring in an entire demographic of NASCAR fans, and (b) it "might" add an element of stock appearance to one of the NASCAR Series'.

[Phils20]

I hope you don't think I was impying you had stolen his idea! Not at all. I was just agreeing that it was a good coversation. Hope you didn't take that the wrong way.

[wardfan]

Do the different types of tires cost the same? Does a tire raced at Daytona cost the same as one run at Bristol? I can imagine the tires at the big tracks are more because they use the inner liners. I'm probably wrong but I don't see how limiting the number of tires can save the smaller teams money. It would make for more interesting racing I think to limit the number of tires used in a race. It would call for some stratigy of the pit crew and skill of the driver to make the most of their limit. But overall I don't see how it will save the smaller teams money because that just means the larger teams can use their money elsewhere, like research & development so I think they will always be ahead of the curve.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by wardfan

Do the different types of tires cost the same? Does a tire raced at Daytona cost the same as one run at Bristol? I can imagine the tires at the big tracks are more because they use the inner liners. I'm probably wrong but I don't see how limiting the number of tires can save the smaller teams money. It would make for more interesting racing I think to limit the number of tires used in a race. It would call for some stratigy of the pit crew and skill of the driver to make the most of their limit. But overall I don't see how it will save the smaller teams money because that just means the larger teams can use their money elsewhere, like research & development so I think they will always be ahead of the curve.

I think you have grasped the essence of the problem. at $1500 a set it pays to have a "tire" sponsor no matter which division you're in. but, in essence, it all comes down to $$$ and who has the best strategy for winning on any given weekend. more tires, fewer tires, bigger fuels cell, smaller fuel cell, COT or not, they're all problems to be overcome by the teams. the team that does it the best will win and, as Kyle Petty said, there's 1 winner and 42 losers.

[PenelopePitStop]

Interesting topic, Bob.

Whether you guys respect my opinion or not, I'm going to give it to you.

#1. If limiting the number of tires used in a Cup race is to even up the field, it's a bad idea. Let's face it: In racing, there are those who have, and those who have not. If a driver needs an additional tire because he runs over debris, does that count?

Let's not forget what happened to the Indy Series. The series split, and I haven't watched since. Lost interest. I used to watch the Indy 500 every year ... now ... I couldn't care less.

#2. The Winston is all about the fans. Period! It's an exhibition race, and the fans love it. There's no pity in this. It's not a points race is it? So what's the fuss all about?

When the Winston first started, they took a vote whether or not to invert the field before the last segment. Every time, the fans voted to invert. Not out of pity, but to see the excitement of the best cars come from the back. "Emotion" has nothing to do with it!

Now, the invert is a given, and they pick a number or spin the wheel to indicate how many cars will be inverted.

I love the Winston! Nothing you can say will change my mind!

[PettyBlue]

I do agree that it's great Hollywood.