[Jeffrey4318]

One of the things Nascar try to sell the fans about the COT was that it was going to equalize the playing field more. Put the racing back in the drivers hands more and not the cars. I just don't see how it has helped any so far. Maybe because they have only used them on short tracks. Maybe we will start to see more effects on aero dependent tracks.

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey4318

The only thing I dislike about the cars is that it was suppose to create a more even playing field. I think we can all say after witnessing these past two races that nothing has changed. All the racing will be the same. The teams with the most resources and money will still dominate. I should of snapped out of my denial sooner. I don't know why but I really hoped that the boxier car would put the driver back into play. I though it would bring back some of the older drivers like Labonte, Rudd, and Jarrett. I don't think these drivers have lost the ability to drive I just think they haven't adapted to the newer cars as well as the younger crowd. I really hoped this new car would bring things back to the hay days. Nope, just the same as before the car is still driving the driver, and not the driver driving the car.

re: bold above

The/a alternate perspective is "no change in the early races of/using COT" is goodness and/or at least progressive.

Watching the last two races I too was struck by the "sameness". Top teams were still top teams, second tier still second tier, etc., etc.

Having personally built multiple chassis for racing purposes - and built here means fabricating the jigs, purchasing, cutting, bending fitting, welding, the raw chrome moly, placing and hanging the points of suspension, the skins, etc., --- sameness in performance is progression towards leveling. You see we were the "lesser financed" running against chassis from national level manufacturers. The leveling advantage - a fundamental level of specification that ALL chassis manufacturers were required to meet.

Results? - right out of the box we ran right with 'em, no worse and perhaps somewhat better than when we were trying to play with the big boys (better financed) and we too purchased the professional level chassis. Pleased? - you bet. Why - we got to point where we were putting cars on the track for nearly half the cost of what the top teams we were racing against were putting out to purchase / acquire their "national manufacturers" stuff. What were we able to do with the money not spent? - put it in to other areas such as a greater inventory of tires, springs, practice and race engines, etc. End results - started to win fair share / more than fair share.

So do not necessarily see no change in the first two COT races as bad. Right now it is a negative load for the lesser teams because it taxes their resources, especially the financial resources. Some might say - "well it taxes the bigger teams too" - but it ain't the same by any stretch of the complaining imagination.

Personal experience has long had me on the side that says - if there is to be COT/spec car or whatever one wants to call it (and there is so get over it, or get out of it) - get it fully in play as soon as possible, but not to the point safety is compromised. The sooner the lesser teams can redirect their resources solely to the vehicle, the greater the chance leveling might occur.

[Jeffrey4318]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

re: bold above

The/a alternate perspective is "no change in the early races of/using COT" is goodness and/or at least progressive.

Watching the last two races I too was struck by the "sameness". Top teams were still top teams, second tier still second tier, etc., etc.

Having personally built multiple chassis for racing purposes - and built here means fabricating the jigs, purchasing, cutting, bending fitting, welding, the raw chrome moly, placing and hanging the points of suspension, the skins, etc., --- sameness in performance is progression towards leveling. You see we were the "lesser financed" running against chassis from national level manufacturers. The leveling advantage - a fundamental level of specification that ALL chassis manufacturers were required to meet.

Results? - right out of the box we ran right with 'em, no worse and perhaps somewhat better than when we were trying to play with the big boys (better financed) and we too purchased the professional level chassis. Pleased? - you bet. Why - we got to point where we were putting cars on the track for nearly half the cost of what the top teams we were racing against were putting out to purchase / acquire their "national manufacturers" stuff. What were we able to do with the money not spent? - put it in to other areas such as a greater inventory of tires, springs, practice and race engines, etc. End results - started to win fair share / more than fair share.

So do not necessarily see no change in the first two COT races as bad. Right now it is a negative load for the lesser teams because it taxes their resources, especially the financial resources. Some might say - "well it taxes the bigger teams too" - but it ain't the same by any stretch of the complaining imagination.

Personal experience has long had me on the side that says - if there is to be COT/spec car or whatever one wants to call it (and there is so get over it, or get out of it) - get it fully in play as soon as possible, but not to the point safety is compromised. The sooner the lesser teams can redirect their resources solely to the vehicle, the greater the chance leveling might occur.

Great post, but unfortunetly I still believe in the long run it does nothing. The heavier fianced teams will still be saving the money as well. Which means they too will be able to redirect money to other better resources. I believe Jack Rousch was quoted a couple years ago stating that you don't save money in Nascar you just find some where else to spend it. I really think they only way Nascar can equal out the playing field and get their teams to save money would be to instill a salary cap of some sorts. Probably the only way to do this would be for Nascar to mandate and sell every part to the race teams. That way they can keep track of what teams buy and limit them. It would be even harder for Nascar, because then they would have to completely dismantle every single nut and bolt on every single car just to make sure teams are using the right parts. I know they pretty much do this anyways, but to check every part would probably be out of the question. This is probably why they wouldn't do it. So I guess after my long rant what I am getting at is no matter what we are stuck with the same ole drivers winning the same ole races.

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey4318

Great post, but unfortunetly I still believe in the long run it does nothing. The heavier fianced teams will still be saving the money as well. Which means they too will be able to redirect money to other better resources. I believe Jack Rousch was quoted a couple years ago stating that you don't save money in Nascar you just find some where else to spend it.

thats a great point

i think if you set a team budget of $1 million and you only need $900,000 you dont end up with $100,000 left over you just spend it on something else

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by simple simon

thats a great point

i think if you set a team budget of $1 million and you only need $900,000 you dont end up with $100,000 left over you just spend it on something else

A team with a million dollar budget is the one who is putting their car back on the hauler before qualifying is over. I know you were just picking #'s out of the air but it would be interesting to see a team budget.

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey4318

Great post, but unfortunetly I still believe in the long run it does nothing. The heavier fianced teams will still be saving the money as well. Which means they too will be able to redirect money to other better resources. I believe Jack Rousch was quoted a couple years ago stating that you don't save money in Nascar you just find some where else to spend it. I really think they only way Nascar can equal out the playing field and get their teams to save money would be to instill a salary cap of some sorts. Probably the only way to do this would be for Nascar to mandate and sell every part to the race teams. That way they can keep track of what teams buy and limit them. It would be even harder for Nascar, because then they would have to completely dismantle every single nut and bolt on every single car just to make sure teams are using the right parts. I know they pretty much do this anyways, but to check every part would probably be out of the question. This is probably why they wouldn't do it. So I guess after my long rant what I am getting at is no matter what we are stuck with the same ole drivers winning the same ole races.

Only time will tell. I honestly cannot pretend to know how the "long run" will play out. My post offered a perspective based on a personal and direct experience of how a level of "standard" actually did end up assisting the lesser team(s) to compete. Per Mr. Roush, and as could be seen in my post, we did not "save", we just spent elsewhere - and it helped.

Fun stuff

[drnascar48]

Voted didn't know yet. But now I have gone to both races now I know how I feel about them. My answer now would be yes and No. Yes I like them because my favorite racing team has won both COT races. I think Hendrick Motorsport has figured out the COT cars and how to win in those cars. The reason why I say no is because they haven't got all the bugs out of the NASCAR product yet. I mean like Brain Vickers burning his feet and his butt and Kevin Harvick problems yesterday. Thee other thing is the foam that they put in the cars they need to figure out what to about that. The other thing is the way it looks. I mean it looks ok. The only thing I don't like about is the wing they put on that car. I read some where. That the idea for that wing came from the IRL cars and the F1 Cars. That is where NASCAR got there idea about the wing came from. I hate the wing. But other than that I don't have a problem with the COT car.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by drnascar48

Voted didn't know yet. But now I have gone to both races now I know how I feel about them. My answer now would be yes and No. Yes I like them because my favorite racing team has won both COT races. I think Hendrick Motorsport has figured out the COT cars and how to win in those cars. The reason why I say no is because they haven't got all the bugs out of the NASCAR product yet. I mean like Brain Vickers burning his feet and his butt and Kevin Harvick problems yesterday. Thee other thing is the foam that they put in the cars they need to figure out what to about that. The other thing is the way it looks. I mean it looks ok. The only thing I don't like about is the wing they put on that car. I read some where. That the idea for that wing came from the IRL cars and the F1 Cars. That is where NASCAR got there idea about the wing came from. I hate the wing. But other than that I don't have a problem with the COT car.

sporty cars been running them for years. every third or fourth car on the streets has a wing of one sort or another .. but, IRL & F1 are completely different animals .. notice NA$CAR didn't spec air jacks on the COT - that would have been a good thing but would put those "large" pit crew members called jackmen out of a job...

[drnascar48]

Originally Posted by Racer Duck

sporty cars been running them for years. every third or fourth car on the streets has a wing of one sort or another .. but, IRL & F1 are completely different animals .. notice NA$CAR didn't spec air jacks on the COT - that would have been a good thing but would put those "large" pit crew members called jackmen out of a job...

That is very True. I am just tell you what I saw in my local Newspaper and what I heared on the radio one day on the way home from work. We don;t want to put the Jackman out of a job. But Na$car might be thiking about doing that one day. If they do I am going to laugh my head off about that.

[Kasey Kahne 9 fan]

not the car of tomorrow untill it starts to fly

[Souporscotty]

Originally Posted by Kasey Kahne 9 fan

not the car of tomorrow untill it starts to fly

Now THAT's funny

[vincesanity82]

Originally Posted by Kasey Kahne 9 fan

not the car of tomorrow untill it starts to fly

yeah but then you'd have to get Doc Brown to steal enough plutonium to power the time machine...

[clutch]

Originally Posted by simple simon

ahh yes........but the CTS trucks never claim to be stock even though it is part of the NASCAR family

i think it is much more implied in the Nextel Series that they are "stock" cars

Now why would you think that?

"much more implied".....well that really is cut and dry aint it

[EmpireWF]

With very little knowledge on race cars...it doesn't look too favorable to the eye. It reminds me of a little plastic matchbox car.

[nascarfan24]

i have the same opinion as Jarret and Burton
its got a gas pedal, a brake pedal, 4 wheels, and a steering wheel
as long as it isn't open wheel im fine!