[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I think we all already agree that we do not get your point. No you never said anything about excluding teammates either .... but your only statement was "WIN AT ANY COST". Your statement made no exception about anyone at that point. We may not have agreed with your point of view but now some see you bending your own rules to fit the scenerio. When the "overhyped" versus "over rated" discussion was going on many couldn't see your point. The lines you draw seem vague at times. So vague that they change under different conditions. My self I guess I'll never quite see your point because it appears to be ever changing for the current situation. If you can live with it then for me that is fine. What I do see is more posters that do not see your point, than those that do. I just don't think you can have an on and off button on passion. If Jeff really was upset it didn't stir up any passion in his driving. Bumping and winning at any cost are two different ways of driving. If he was really interested in owner points then he would not have been mad. I guess we'll never really know if he was mad or just passionless.

Well put, LSC! You can't be a vacillating fan and stroke your favorite driver when it suits you. Hey, I loved Sr. Did he always do the right thing? No. But without question, he was determined to win at any cost!


I'm tired of talking about Gordon ... can we move on? ...


http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb097&pp=ZN

[clutch]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Ah, yes. Gordon always expects another driver to "let him by".

I thought Johnson did a great job blocking Gordon. As I said in another thread, I think blocking for the win is great ... a unique talent ... but dangerous! Still doesn't make me a Johnson fan!

a unique talent?...... whatever


Like Gordon said there will be interesting racing going forward

[Nevadastars]

Did anyone catch Johnsons in-car radio broadcast to Knaus on Inside Nextel Cup? Jimmie said "He's probably pissed off, but I don't care, I've always wanted to race him head to head at this place".

Didnt someone above say Gordo created the monster?

[jks812]

I heard that too. I really think it all came down to Hendrick's order, and anybody that watched the Taladega race 2 years ago and listen to Gordon's radio knows what I mean.Four times during that race Johnson couldn't get to the front and Gordon was told to fall to the back and draft him to the front. Thats what I meant when I said Hendrick has turned Gordon into Johnsons pansy boy. And anytime it comes down to Johnson or Gordon for the win, it'll be Johnson. But ya'll are right, Gordon helped create the monster now he has to live with it.

[SpaceCadet]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

I'm tired of talking about Gordon ... can we move on? ...

Not just yet. And PPS, it just happened to be you I quoted but my observations are for everyone. I don't want to single anyone out. I've been reading these comments with great interest. I believe Tony Stewart was mildly annoyed when Johnson beat him, and hats off to Tony for not wrecking him, but that wasn't even mentioned. "It would have been nice if he had really let us race him" I think is close to what Tony said. "Let us race him"? Why does he have to "let you race him"? If you can pass, do it. He was letting you race, how could he stop you? That was a ridiculous statement by Stewart, and I actually like Tony when he's not being a jerk. Gordon was obviously disappointed for losing the race, and went on to say he felt Johnson did the right thing by racing him hard. Tony whined, Gordon did not, yet Gordon gets crucified every time, no matter what he says or does not say. I came into this forum pretty nuetral. I like racing no matter who's doing it. From a middle of the road standpoint, Gordon causes an incredible amount of anguish among people. You either love him and he can do no wrong, or you hate him to the point where it frankly, is almost scary. Mike is getting picked on because of a statement he made about winning at all cost, but couldn't back it up if you were team mates. Ok, I get that. Both sides are so adamant in their feelings that they can't see then end of Sunday's race for what it was. It was fantastic racing! It was racing to win without wrecking to get there! It was a gracious winner and a loser who admitted he couldn't get the job done! What is the problem with that? Would you all be yelling at each other if the driver's involved were not HMS drivers? What if it were, say, LaBonte and Jr.? Geepers, guys, take it for what it was and enjoy it! I don't want to see HMS win every week, but there must be a reason why their teams are running so well. Maybe there's some jealousy out there. If the racing's great, I could care less about who's doing it.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I think we all already agree that we do not get your point. No you never said anything about excluding teammates either .... but your only statement was "WIN AT ANY COST". Your statement made no exception about anyone at that point. We may not have agreed with your point of view but now some see you bending your own rules to fit the scenerio. When the "overhyped" versus "over rated" discussion was going on many couldn't see your point. The lines you draw seem vague at times. So vague that they change under different conditions. My self I guess I'll never quite see your point because it appears to be ever changing for the current situation. If you can live with it then for me that is fine. What I do see is more posters that do not see your point, than those that do. I just don't think you can have an on and off button on passion. If Jeff really was upset it didn't stir up any passion in his driving. Bumping and winning at any cost are two different ways of driving. If he was really interested in owner points then he would not have been mad. I guess we'll never really know if he was mad or just passionless.

I'll try to make it a little more clearer. You try to win at all costs, even if it's your teammate. But, you race your teammates with extra caution, but if you have to spin him to do it, then do it. Jeff didn't have to spin Johnson to do it. Jeff did the bump n run on Jimmie, Jimmie just came down and slowed Gordon's momentum, which may have costed Gordon the win.

And btw, my opinion dosen't change because it involves Gordon, I've always had the feeling that you go for the win at all costs, even if it's your teammate, but race your teammates with a little extra caution. But if you still have to spin your teammate to win, then do it. Jeff even admitted in the post race interview that he should have been a little more aggressive with Johnson than he was, and the next time around, there will be much different racing.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by clutch

a unique talent?...... whatever


Like Gordon said there will be interesting racing going forward

Yup ... a unique talent. Not many drivers can block without wrecking themsleves or the car behind them. Again, strategy, my friend.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

Not just yet. And PPS, it just happened to be you I quoted but my observations are for everyone. I don't want to single anyone out. I've been reading these comments with great interest. I believe Tony Stewart was mildly annoyed when Johnson beat him, and hats off to Tony for not wrecking him, but that wasn't even mentioned. "It would have been nice if he had really let us race him" I think is close to what Tony said. "Let us race him"? Why does he have to "let you race him"? If you can pass, do it. He was letting you race, how could he stop you? That was a ridiculous statement by Stewart, and I actually like Tony when he's not being a jerk. Gordon was obviously disappointed for losing the race, and went on to say he felt Johnson did the right thing by racing him hard. Tony whined, Gordon did not, yet Gordon gets crucified every time, no matter what he says or does not say. I came into this forum pretty nuetral. I like racing no matter who's doing it. From a middle of the road standpoint, Gordon causes an incredible amount of anguish among people. You either love him and he can do no wrong, or you hate him to the point where it frankly, is almost scary. Mike is getting picked on because of a statement he made about winning at all cost, but couldn't back it up if you were team mates. Ok, I get that. Both sides are so adamant in their feelings that they can't see then end of Sunday's race for what it was. It was fantastic racing! It was racing to win without wrecking to get there! It was a gracious winner and a loser who admitted he couldn't get the job done! What is the problem with that? Would you all be yelling at each other if the driver's involved were not HMS drivers? What if it were, say, LaBonte and Jr.? Geepers, guys, take it for what it was and enjoy it! I don't want to see HMS win every week, but there must be a reason why their teams are running so well. Maybe there's some jealousy out there. If the racing's great, I could care less about who's doing it.

Uh-oh ... you quoted me? What the heck did I say? You can single me out all you want ... I can take it.

I'm missing the Tony example.

I don't have an issue with Mike. He prompts heated discussion and banter. I don't study his posts to determine whether or not he contradicts himself. LSC takes care of that.

If we all loved Gordon, all hated Stewart, and everyone agreed with what everyone else said, how much fun would this forum be?


And by the way, I was the first one to say "Now that was a finish!" on the Live Chat.

LaBonte and Jr.? I like them both, and regardless of what the outcome may have been, I still would of thought that was a great finish.

[LSC9901]

Once again another thread is taking a beating. To Space Cadet .. it really (for me) has zero to do with Jeff Gordon, Jimmy Johnson or HMS.

I am a race fan. There are drivers I like and then the rest. My part in this discussion could have been with anyone and not just Mike. I enjoy discussions with Mike because he is willing to discuss what he believes. My issue was all about what was said and then the addendum to it. It truely makes no difference who said it. It was/is just a point for discussion. PERIOD. It could have been Hamlin and Stewart and you trying to discuss the issue. If you make a statement then change it to suit the incident then you or who ever makes it will get some questions.

What difference does it make to the race. NONE AT ALL. One thing I enjoy about GTG is the spirited discussion that can occur. Yes some fans are more spirited in their desire to defend their driver. That's fine. When you defend an unpopular team/driver then you have to be ready to step up and fight for your feelings. Mike does this just great ... but at the same time he does step right up and face the wrath of all the Jeff non-lovers. For anyone who thinks this is a fight with Mike ... it's not. He's wrong and I'm right !!!!!

[trollmc08]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadet

Not just yet. And PPS, it just happened to be you I quoted but my observations are for everyone. I don't want to single anyone out. I've been reading these comments with great interest. I believe Tony Stewart was mildly annoyed when Johnson beat him, and hats off to Tony for not wrecking him, but that wasn't even mentioned. "It would have been nice if he had really let us race him" I think is close to what Tony said. "Let us race him"? Why does he have to "let you race him"? If you can pass, do it. He was letting you race, how could he stop you? That was a ridiculous statement by Stewart, and I actually like Tony when he's not being a jerk. Gordon was obviously disappointed for losing the race, and went on to say he felt Johnson did the right thing by racing him hard. Tony whined, Gordon did not, yet Gordon gets crucified every time, no matter what he says or does not say. I came into this forum pretty nuetral. I like racing no matter who's doing it. From a middle of the road standpoint, Gordon causes an incredible amount of anguish among people. You either love him and he can do no wrong, or you hate him to the point where it frankly, is almost scary. Mike is getting picked on because of a statement he made about winning at all cost, but couldn't back it up if you were team mates. Ok, I get that. Both sides are so adamant in their feelings that they can't see then end of Sunday's race for what it was. It was fantastic racing! It was racing to win without wrecking to get there! It was a gracious winner and a loser who admitted he couldn't get the job done! What is the problem with that? Would you all be yelling at each other if the driver's involved were not HMS drivers? What if it were, say, LaBonte and Jr.? Geepers, guys, take it for what it was and enjoy it! I don't want to see HMS win every week, but there must be a reason why their teams are running so well. Maybe there's some jealousy out there. If the racing's great, I could care less about who's doing it.

Hay Spacecadet you left me out I am one that was yelling every chance I could. First I love spirited conversations and I know if no one else will give me one Mike will. I have had more fun trying to git him to admit he was wrong and still I know he like my self will never do that but it is always fun trying. After all I know I am always right and if by chance I am not right then someone else is wrong.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Once again another thread is taking a beating. To Space Cadet .. it really (for me) has zero to do with Jeff Gordon, Jimmy Johnson or HMS.

I am a race fan. There are drivers I like and then the rest. My part in this discussion could have been with anyone and not just Mike. I enjoy discussions with Mike because he is willing to discuss what he believes. My issue was all about what was said and then the addendum to it. It truely makes no difference who said it. It was/is just a point for discussion. PERIOD. It could have been Hamlin and Stewart and you trying to discuss the issue. If you make a statement then change it to suit the incident then you or who ever makes it will get some questions.

What difference does it make to the race. NONE AT ALL. One thing I enjoy about GTG is the spirited discussion that can occur. Yes some fans are more spirited in their desire to defend their driver. That's fine. When you defend an unpopular team/driver then you have to be ready to step up and fight for your feelings. Mike does this just great ... but at the same time he does step right up and face the wrath of all the Jeff non-lovers. For anyone who thinks this is a fight with Mike ... it's not. He's wrong and I'm right !!!!!

Poor Mike! I will admit that he annoyed the hell out of me when I first joined this forum, but he's grown on me. He and I will never agree. So what?

He's true to Gordon. That's fine with me, but I'm certainly going to give him "what for" if I disagree.

I think there are so many Gordon-haters out there, that it has become necessary for his fans to defend him. That's fine, too!

Let's see ... if I were to pick the most controversial drivers these days, I'd say Gordon, Johnson, Jr., and Stewart. They are all good ... depends on your favorite for whatever reason. I suppose I'd have to throw the Busch's into the mix ...

So what does this say? Perhaps that's another thread.

[trollmc08]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Poor Mike! I will admit that he annoyed the hell out of me when I first joined this forum, but he's grown on me. He and I will never agree. So what?

He's true to Gordon. That's fine with me, but I'm certainly going to give him "what for" if I disagree.

I think there are so many Gordon-haters out there, that it has become necessary for his fans to defend him. That's fine, too!

Let's see ... if I were to pick the most controversial drivers these days, I'd say Gordon, Johnson, Jr., and Stewart. They are all good ... depends on your favorite for whatever reason. I suppose I'd have to throw the Busch's into the mix ...

So what does this say? Perhaps that's another thread.

yea PPS I would like to throw them in the mixer with a little ice, vodka, Orange juice and let it whirl.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by trollmc08

yea PPS I would like to throw them in the mixer with a little ice, vodka, Orange juice and let it whirl.

Yummy! ... I'll join you ...

[clutch]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Yup ... a unique talent. Not many drivers can block without wrecking themsleves or the car behind them. Again, strategy, my friend.

Totally disagree.........They may look talented..to YOU, but they are relying on the kindness of the guy behind them.

You think your idol (SNR) would put up with that for more than a lap...nor would I

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by clutch

Totally disagree.........They may look talented..to YOU, but they are relying on the kindness of the guy behind them.

You think your idol (SNR) would put up with that for more than a lap...nor would I

No need to be hostile, Clutch. And since when does "kindness" apply to any type of racing? I don't think Gordon was "kind" enough not to wreck Johnson. He was just trying to do what he could for the win, but then whined about the fact that Johnson wouldn't move over.

Johnson and Gordon raced dirty AND clean during the final laps. What's wrong with that?

I don't know where you get that "SNR" is my "idol". He isn't/wasn't. I was a huge fan, buy no driver is my "idol". For me, an "idol" reaches far beyond any sport. But since you brought it up, no, I don't think Sr. would have put up with Johnson's blocking. But if it was Sr. on Johnson's butt instead of Gordon, Sr. would have found a way around "using the rest of the track" as you guys say, use the old bump and run, or just take second.

If you can't successfully block another driver for the win, you shouldn't be on the track.