[Souporscotty]

Well, Yota makes another (IMVHO) mediocre showing at qualifying. Ya s'pose NAPA is thinkin' how much publicicty they get from a car sittin' in a trailer? All things aside, I can't really remember how well Dodge did their first year(back). Bob, please enlighten me.

[LSC9901]

I see two issues for Toyoter. First off I stated last year that Toyoter has zero experience in cup racing. Yes they do race in other forms but it just isn't the same. Secondly some of the drivers they managed to get just are not at the top of their game and in that same vein the teams are still trying to get the team effort together.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Souporscotty

Well, Yota makes another (IMVHO) mediocre showing at qualifying. Ya s'pose NAPA is thinkin' how much publicicty they get from a car sittin' in a trailer? All things aside, I can't really remember how well Dodge did their first year(back). Bob, please enlighten me.

They started their first race, when they made their latest comeback, on the pole at Daytona (Bill Elliott) and it was a bit into the season before they got their first win. Toyota isn't doing as well, but... Don't let first impressions lull you into a false sense of security. Personally, I think Toyota is looking big picture (think of it as points racing, only on a much grander scale).

It looks to me as though they have all their bases covered. They have a guaranteed spot in the first races (Jarrett). They have a solid team owner who has been with them since day one (Bill Davis). They have a world-class sponsor (Red Bull). They have hard-charging drivers who have a lot of potential (Reutimann, Vickers, and Almendinger). They have a well known mouthpiece to push their product at every turn (The Brothers Waltrip). They have good crew chiefs (Doug Reichert and Ricky Viers). Plus TRD has experience in all venues of auto racing.

Rather than come out of the box fast, thus re-enforcing all the Jack Roushes of the sport who predicted that Toyota would ruin the sport, they're taking a low-key, plodding approach to things.

I caution you to remember the fable of the tortoise and the hare. Remember who won.

[RUSTYFAN2]

I was thinking ... perhaps michael waltrip should steal the new impala song from the comercial. It could go...
"hat to the side, seat back low, my ass is going home, `cause my toyota drives slow"!

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

They started their first race, when they made their latest comeback, on the pole at Daytona (Bill Elliott) and it was a bit into the season before they got their first win. Toyota isn't doing as well, but... Don't let first impressions lull you into a false sense of security. Personally, I think Toyota is looking big picture (think of it as points racing, only on a much grander scale).

It looks to me as though they have all their bases covered. They have a guaranteed spot in the first races (Jarrett). They have a solid team owner who has been with them since day one (Bill Davis). They have a world-class sponsor (Red Bull). They have hard-charging drivers who have a lot of potential (Reutimann, Vickers, and Almendinger). They have a well known mouthpiece to push their product at every turn (The Brothers Waltrip). They have good crew chiefs (Doug Reichert and Ricky Viers). Plus TRD has experience in all venues of auto racing.

Rather than come out of the box fast, thus re-enforcing all the Jack Roushes of the sport who predicted that Toyota would ruin the sport, they're taking a low-key, plodding approach to things.

I caution you to remember the fable of the tortoise and the hare. Remember who won.

Well I guess this time we don't agree Bob. I see your points and I'm sure they are valid. First Jarrett is only assured a start for a couple more races and then he must prove himself. I am a Jarrett fan but I'm sorry ... I just don't think he has what it takes anymore. You get to that point in your career when the best days are behind you and I believe that's where Dale is now.

Yes Bill Davis has been around for years but ..... always a but, the owner is the only part of the equation. It takes a complete package.

Red Bull, NAPA, Dupont ... to me they are all the same. They are a wallet looking for exposure. Some have larger pockets than others and as we've seen with "Mr. Goodwrench" they too can leave or reduce their involvement in the sport.

The hard-charging driving I'll give you and I'll even give you the crew chiefs, but I do stand by my statement that it requires a complete package to win. Ray Everham was part of a complete package with HMS. As an owner he has done well but no real great breakout stats.

As for the Brothers Grimm or was it Waltrip. Either way they are a negative in my book. I could write for hours about them but I'llpass. You can go to any other thread and read that.

The tortise and the hare ???? May the best man win, no matter what NASCAR-mobile they drive.

[Souporscotty]

I'm wondering about sponsors. Let's face it; they're the ones that make the cars go 'round. If they're not getting that exposure, will they keep spending the money? Do major sponsors contract for a season? Race to race? Or all contracts different? I've never followed this part of NA$CAR before, so I have no idea.

[Jeffrey4318]

I'm not sure if you can compare Toyota to Dodge. Dodge had it easy, they came into this sport where majority of their teams were already successful mainstays in Nascar. Everhamn Motorsports as I can remember was the only Dodge team starting from scratch. Even then they were using alot of Awesome Bill's old equipement/team. Poor Toyota had to come into this sport with new start up teams. They only carry over is Bill Davis. Lets face it though even Bill Davis is basically a start up team since they ran serveral years without factory support. I still think in order for Toyota to start making gains they need to snag a top team from another manufacture. I'm thinking this time next year they will have that team. Chip Ganasse? Penske? Gibbs? maybe all three. One thing is for sure they will have their top team.

[Team Yates]

Originally Posted by RUSTYFAN2

I was thinking ... perhaps michael waltrip should steal the new impala song from the comercial. It could go...
"hat to the side, seat back low, my ass is going home, `cause my toyota drives slow"!

As Larry the Cable guy says: "I don't care who you are thats funny"!!

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Well I guess this time we don't agree Bob. I see your points and I'm sure they are valid. First Jarrett is only assured a start for a couple more races and then he must prove himself. I am a Jarrett fan but I'm sorry ... I just don't think he has what it takes anymore. You get to that point in your career when the best days are behind you and I believe that's where Dale is now..

Oh, I believe we agree, just from different perspectives. IRT NA$CAR Champ's Provisional Revision: strictly a pacifier to the fans who saw the obvious. Why did they stop at six races? Because it gave an ex-champ the first five races, plus one, to gather enough points to be in the Chosen 35. The ONLY thing it stopped was the ability of an ex-champ to "live" on his prior status for an entire season.

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Yes Bill Davis has been around for years but ..... always a but, the owner is the only part of the equation. It takes a complete package..

Davis has been with Toyota since they decided to enter Cup. I totally agree about the complete package, but as far as TRD goes, BDR is the factory team. All the other Toyota teams get their engines from TRD. BDR is the ONLY Cup team with its own engine shop? Is TRD giving BDR something they aren't giving the others, in order to allow BDR to be a more stand-alone effort? Time will tell.

Originally Posted by LSC9901

The hard-charging driving I'll give you and I'll even give you the crew chiefs, but I do stand by my statement that it requires a complete package to win. Ray Everham was part of a complete package with HMS. As an owner he has done well but no real great breakout stats..

I totally concur. Plus, Everham Racing was, and still is, a total factory effort. It was MOPAR money which fought the Ford Racing Division lawsuit over Kasey's defection. I'm surprised that Ray hasn't been more successful than he has. Lot's of theories for that.

Originally Posted by LSC9901

As for the Brothers Grimm or was it Waltrip. Either way they are a negative in my book. I could write for hours about them but I'll pass. You can go to any other thread and read that..

You may well be the one person who comes close to having the total distaint that I have for Waltrip & Co. As boorish as they consistently are [to me], they appeal to a whole lot of consumers who think their on-camera persona is the best thing to happen to marketing since they turned bargain basements into discount stores. Which goes to show you that there is no accounting for taste. <G>

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Originally Posted by LSC9901
As for the Brothers Grimm or was it Waltrip. Either way they are a negative in my book. I could write for hours about them but I'll pass. You can go to any other thread and read that..

You may well be the one person who comes close to having the total distaint that I have for Waltrip & Co. As boorish as they consistently are [to me], they appeal to a whole lot of consumers who think their on-camera persona is the best thing to happen to marketing since they turned bargain basements into discount stores. Which goes to show you that there is no accounting for taste. <G>

So does this make you and I unique Bob ?????

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by Souporscotty

I'm wondering about sponsors. Let's face it; they're the ones that make the cars go 'round. If they're not getting that exposure, will they keep spending the money? Do major sponsors contract for a season? Race to race? Or all contracts different? I've never followed this part of NA$CAR before, so I have no idea.

Yeah, sponsors sign a contract for a year or a number of races .. sometimes they even specify which races. They pay mega bucks for top billing and expect "positive" exposure. Seeing DNQ next to their entry is not good .. makes the renewal negotiations rather one-sided => wallet a bit more closed and pockets not as deep.

Bottom Line: Somebody will get a pay cut if things don't improve!!!