[simple simon]

most boring has to be the road courses

[clutch]

Nordic Track......stationary cross country skiing has to be the most boring

...sorry



Califorrnia is the only track I've been to( three times) and it is doesnt have many cautions......seem to be long greens when I've been present.
So it is rather dull but the closest to NZ

Next year I'd like to go to the Vegas race

[PenelopePitStop]

Wow! Very good insight from all of you!

Some of my friends and colleagues think that the only reason "we" watch racing is to see a wreck! Hello!? I could smack them upside the head! Ignorance!

I just love a good, competitive race. A few years ago while at Loudon, Burton "wired" the field. I don't dislike Burton, but that wasn't a very good show for the fans. And if one car can be so dominant, what are the other teams missing? I realize that the drivers aren't thinking about putting on a show for the fans, but let's face it, if it wasn't for the fans, where would NASCAR be? Most respectable drivers and teams realize that.

Oh, and what's the "Chosen 35 Rule"?

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Wow! Very good insight from all of you!

Some of my friends and colleagues think that the only reason "we" watch racing is to see a wreck! Hello!? I could smack them upside the head! Ignorance!

I just love a good, competitive race. A few years ago while at Loudon, Burton "wired" the field. I don't dislike Burton, but that wasn't a very good show for the fans. And if one car can be so dominant, what are the other teams missing? I realize that the drivers aren't thinking about putting on a show for the fans, but let's face it, if it wasn't for the fans, where would NASCAR be? Most respectable drivers and teams realize that.

Oh, and what's the "Chosen 35 Rule"?

It's the top 35 rule. Every race the top 35 drivers in points are guaranteed a startin position in the race. It was good at first... now it just plain stinks.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Quality88

It's the top 35 rule. Every race the top 35 drivers in points are guaranteed a startin position in the race. It was good at first... now it just plain stinks.

I see. Thanks for explaining. Is this combined or related to the manufacturer's points or past champions? I've never quite understood qualifying exceptions based on anything other than speed.

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

I see. Thanks for explaining. Is this combined or related to the manufacturer's points or past champions? I've never quite understood qualifying exceptions based on anything other than speed.

Past champions provisional lets a past champion in( the most recent champion that isn't able to qualify ex. Dale Jarrett). positions 36 through 43 set on speed(not including any past champion usin a provisonal). Of course now a driver can only use a past champions provisional 6 times in one year. Manufacturers points are just for braggin rights about the title.( pi$$in matches)

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Quality88

Past champions provisional lets a past champion in( the most recent champion that isn't able to qualify ex. Dale Jarrett). positions 36 through 43 set on speed(not including any past champion usin a provisonal). Of course now a driver can only use a past champions provisional 6 times in one year. Manufacturers points are just for braggin rights about the title.( pi$$in matches)

I get it ... I think ...

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Wow! Very good insight from all of you!

Some of my friends and colleagues think that the only reason "we" watch racing is to see a wreck! Hello!? I could smack them upside the head! Ignorance! ]

]

This is a feeling shared by most people who haven't followed racing for any length of time, Pen. I would guess that over 90% of all race fans, who weren't indirectly involved in racing (i.e.; going to the track with dad, or a relative who raced) were first drawn to racing because of the action involving wrecks. Wreck fans quickly evolve into race fans as they learn more about the sport and the people involved in it. They come to appreciate the artistry and skill it takes to successfully race a high speed race car, of any type.

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

[I just love a good, competitive race. A few years ago while at Loudon, Burton "wired" the field. I don't dislike Burton, but that wasn't a very good show for the fans. And if one car can be so dominant, what are the other teams missing? I realize that the drivers aren't thinking about putting on a show for the fans, but let's face it, if it wasn't for the fans, where would NASCAR be? Most respectable drivers and teams realize that.[/size][/font]]]

]

I understand what you're saying but I look at that example from another angle. While it might not have you setting on the edge of your seat during the last lap, I have a hearty respect for a driver and team which can dominate a race like Jeff did at Louden. I don't expect many to agree with me, or even completely understand but I would much, much rather see a race end up like the above Louden race, than to see it end close only because NASCAR manipulated the race with debris cautions, Lucky Dogs, etc., etc, just for the sake of a "spectacular" finish.

NA$CAR has managed to make the viewing public believe that each and every race should end like this year's Daytona race did. They've about managed to turn actual stock car racing into an illusion.

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

[Oh, and what's the "Chosen 35 Rule"? ]

NA$CAR gives the top 35 in OWNER's Points a guaranteed starting spot. This is done, obstensively, to "reward" team who support NASCAR by entering every race. I believe the current system began in 2004. Before that they used a provisional system to accomplish the same thing but that system had some holes in it which could leave NA$CAR's most popular drivers out in the cold if everything fell right (or wrong, depending on your point of view).

Since NA$CAR's most prolific tee-shirt sellers (read: most popular drivers) are on teams which enter each week, the current system doubly ensures that, even in the face of a two, or three week disastrous finish, NA$CAR's most popular drivers WILL be in the starting field each and every week.

"But don't Red Bull, MWR, BAM racing and Furniture Row enter each week, too? Since they support NA$CAR, why aren't they also rewarded?," you ask. Excellent question. Why aren't they?

In case no one has ever told you, Pen, you ask some damn good questions. keep it up.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

]

This is a feeling shared by most people who haven't followed racing for any length of time, Pen. I would guess that over 90% of all race fans, who weren't indirectly involved in racing (i.e.; going to the track with dad, or a relative who raced) were first drawn to racing because of the action involving wrecks. Wreck fans quickly evolve into race fans as they learn more about the sport and the people involved in it. They come to appreciate the artistry and skill it takes to successfully race a high speed race car, of any type.
]

I understand what you're saying but I look at that example from another angle. While it might not have you setting on the edge of your seat during the last lap, I have a hearty respect for a driver and team which can dominate a race like Jeff did at Louden. I don't expect many to agree with me, or even completely understand but I would much, much rather see a race end up like the above Louden race, than to see it end close only because NASCAR manipulated the race with debris cautions, Lucky Dogs, etc., etc, just for the sake of a "spectacular" finish.

NA$CAR has managed to make the viewing public believe that each and every race should end like this year's Daytona race did. They've about managed to turn actual stock car racing into an illusion.


NA$CAR gives the top 35 in OWNER's Points a guaranteed starting spot. This is done, obstensively, to "reward" team who support NASCAR by entering every race. I believe the current system began in 2004. Before that they used a provisional system to accomplish the same thing but that system had some holes in it which could leave NA$CAR's most popular drivers out in the cold if everything fell right (or wrong, depending on your point of view).

Since NA$CAR's most prolific tee-shirt sellers (read: most popular drivers) are on teams which enter each week, the current system doubly ensures that, even in the face of a two, or three week disastrous finish, NA$CAR's most popular drivers WILL be in the starting field each and every week.

"But don't Red Bull, MWR, BAM racing and Furniture Row enter each week, too? Since they support NA$CAR, why aren't they also rewarded?," you ask. Excellent question. Why aren't they?

In case no one has ever told you, Pen, you ask some damn good questions. keep it up.

Well, well, hello Bob--

I agree that some fans appreciate the artistry (I love that word). For myself, I was first brought into NASCAR in 1985 while dating an educated fan. Though we are long separated, my fascination with NASCAR has continued. I've never been a fan of wrecks.

I do respect your opinion of Jeff at Loudon, and I understand your perspective. But what makes that happen? Seriously! He was so damn dominant against other very talented teams. I hate to use the word "blame", but who do we blame? The drivers, the teams, the track?

I'm glad that you think I "ask some damn good questions." Being a "newbie", it has been hard to hold my own with the other knowledgeable members of this forum

It has been a good find!

[trollmc08]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Well, well, hello Bob--

I agree that some fans appreciate the artistry (I love that word). For myself, I was first brought into NASCAR in 1985 while dating an educated fan. Though we are long separated, my fascination with NASCAR has continued. I've never been a fan of wrecks.

I do respect your opinion of Jeff at Loudon, and I understand your perspective. But what makes that happen? Seriously! He was so damn dominant against other very talented teams. I hate to use the word "blame", but who do we blame? The drivers, the teams, the track?

I'm glad that you think I "ask some damn good questions." Being a "newbie", it has been hard to hold my own with the other knowledgeable members of this forum

It has been a good find!

PPS I ,like Bob, think you ask some good questions. I love a race that goes caution free. Don't know if we'll have any more with all this invisible debre but I hope so. I am not a wreck fan, all tho I do like seeing the drivers walk away from some reacts that may have have been fatal at one time. I don't mind one driver stinking up the show. That is a tribute to a whole teams work, after all if you are a race fan there will be plenty of good racing elsewhere on the track. It may be for 34th. place but if a driver is in 35th. place he will race the other car like it is for the win. This is also why I don't think any track is boring. I know I'm in the minority but I love racing for racing its self. I guess that is why I'll be at "North Alabama Speedway"(our locale track) tomorrow night.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by trollmc08

PPS I ,like Bob, think you ask some good questions. I love a race that goes caution free. Don't know if we'll have any more with all this invisible debre but I hope so. I am not a wreck fan, all tho I do like seeing the drivers walk away from some reacts that may have have been fatal at one time. I don't mind one driver stinking up the show. That is a tribute to a whole teams work, after all if you are a race fan there will be plenty of good racing elsewhere on the track. It may be for 34th. place but if a driver is in 35th. place he will race the other car like it is for the win. This is also why I don't think any track is boring. I know I'm in the minority but I love racing for racing its self. I guess that is why I'll be at "North Alabama Speedway"(our locale track) tomorrow night.

Thanks, Troll--

I'm glad you think I ask good questions. I've enjoyed and learned from your posts as well. There are many members of this forum who do the same, and that's why I continue to frequent it.

I can't speak of inspections or manufacturers, but I can surely speak to/of the fan base. I'm sure that some day, I'll be banned from this forum due to the questions I raise!

I'm torn on cautions. They bring the field together, justified or not. However, I never want to see any driver get hurt, not even the ones I don't care for so much.

I'll never forget Rusty rolling over and over again at one of the super speedways. I think it was Talladega. Though not a big fan, I was horrified, and thought sure he was dead. Thankfully, he survived.

I agree with your comments regarding one driver "stinking up the show". Yes, there is plenty of good racing elsewhere on the track. I guess I just like a more competitive race for the win! Unfortunately, the media doesn't always focus on the action behind the leader.

Every race is different. I suppose that's why there's such a huge fan base.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Well, well, hello Bob--

I agree that some fans appreciate the artistry (I love that word). For myself, I was first brought into NASCAR in 1985 while dating an educated fan. Though we are long separated, my fascination with NASCAR has continued. I've never been a fan of wrecks.

I do respect your opinion of Jeff at Loudon, and I understand your perspective. But what makes that happen? Seriously! He was so damn dominant against other very talented teams. I hate to use the word "blame", but who do we blame? The drivers, the teams, the track?

I'm glad that you think I "ask some damn good questions." Being a "newbie", it has been hard to hold my own with the other knowledgeable members of this forum

It has been a good find!

For my perspective, auto racing is much like music; it has different genres and people become involved with it for different reasons. None of it is bad (the sole exception there is Rap; that makes me long for disco, and I absolutely hated disco!), it's just different.

For better or worse, I post regularly here and I am prone to use terms which may be confusing to someone no accustomed to my verb age. Here is an explanation of my lexicon which may, or may not prove helpful in understanding me.

NA$CARmobile.v2 = The new NA$CAR "Car of Tomorrow."
NA$CARmobile = The cars they currently run in NASCAR. As explained in a recent article by Ed Hinton, of the Orlando Journal, they just ain't "Stock" cars.
The Invisibles = The drivers and cars not in the playoff at season's end.
Playoff = The NEXTEL Chase, the top twelve after 26 races.
Ignoranuses = Darrell Waltrip and Larry McReynolds. McReynolds because he does to accepted grammar what the common cold does to health. DW because I have spent the last thirty years disliking the guy. He was one of NASCAR's best drivers but one of its absolute worse winners. The entire time he drove for Hendrick and wouldn't let my wife use Tide detergent!
Jeffie-Pooh = Jeff Gordon. Probably one of NASCAR's best drivers but ... I don't know; to me the pseudonym just fits him.
The Felon = Rick Hendrick. In 1989 he was convicted of federal mail fraud and bribery in connection with his Honda dealership. He was sentenced to a term in some "Club Fed" but weaseled out of it by pleading health problems for some form of blood cancer. The courts let him off on some form of house arrest and as soon as this was final his cancer miraculously went into remission and wasn't heard from again. I'm a firm believer that if a man does the crime, he can do the time. The fact that Slick granted him a pardon in 1990 didn't improve my opinion of him. It's a personal thing.
NASCAR-hugger = A person who devoutly believes that NA$CAR can do little, or no wrong. These are folks to whom people like me are an aberration. This is a term coined by another member of this forum and one which I have absconded with. Examples are: Marty Smith of NASCAR.com, Pete Pistone of RacingOne.com, Dave Moody of SIRIUS radio, Clair B. Lang of XM radio, about 50% of the print journalist and 75% of the broadcast media types.
Weed-Whackers-on-Steroids = Indy cars and F1 cars. Over-technological pieces of excrement

These are all I can think of at the moment.