[LSC9901]

I just watched David Gilliland go through turns 3 & 4 and spin. He rear ended the wall but in his first lap had the car 13th fastest. Now that he wrecked the car he is forced to use a back up car and go to the back of the field. He will be allowed to use his 13th place run to choose his pit. Question is do you think it is right that they get to use an untested car to enter the race ? Do you think that as long as they are medically/physically able, should they be forced to qualify the back-up car ???

[Team Yates]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I just watched David Gilliland go through turns 3 & 4 and spin. He rear ended the wall but in his first lap had the car 13th fastest. Now that he wrecked the car he is forced to use a back up car and go to the back of the field. He will be allowed to use his 13th place run to choose his pit. Question is do you think it is right that they get to use an untested car to enter the race ? Do you think that as long as they are medically/physically able, should they be forced to qualify the back-up car ???

I just watched that too!!!! GGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!
What the %#@!??? For as long as they have been racing, its been that way. Plus, how do you know they didn't test that back up car when they tested?!? Also, Goodyear in their infinite wisdom has changed the tire compound since they all tested.
I'm sure that they would love the chance to qualify the back up car, but can you imagine the biotching that would commence?

[Racer Duck]

I wouldn't say the backup is "untested" .. usually it's one that's been around a while and might not have all the new goodies on it, or it's a car that's better on a different, but similar track.

NA$CAR can't keep their timetable commitments if they have to re-qualify drivers who crash or blow engines. TV wouldn't like it either. I'd rather see them do the re-qualifies and make the other things wait, but TV swings a big hammer...

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Team Yates

I just watched that too!!!! GGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!
What the %#@!??? For as long as they have been racing, its been that way. Plus, how do you know they didn't test that back up car when they tested?!? Also, Goodyear in their infinite wisdom has changed the tire compound since they all tested.
I'm sure that they would love the chance to qualify the back up car, but can you imagine the biotching that would commence?

Whoa, whoa, whoa there tiger. Just trying to make for some discussion. I know it has been that way since the beginning of time. I'm not arguing against it. Plus when I said test the back-up I really meant qualify it. I apologize for not being more clear on that. Tires are another issue.

[simple simon]

Originally Posted by Team Yates

but can you imagine the biotching that would commence?

i agree totally

i suppose if youre doing crappy in your 1st lap and a half you just bounce off the wall so you can bring out the back-up for another try at qualifying and hope it does better

[Team Yates]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Whoa, whoa, whoa there tiger. Just trying to make for some discussion. I know it has been that way since the beginning of time. I'm not arguing against it. Plus when I said test the back-up I really meant qualify it. I apologize for not being more clear on that. Tires are another issue.

Well, I thought I was discussing the issues at hand?!? I did say in my post that I'm sure that they would love to qualify their back up car. Yes, tires are another issue, but it does have some play in the situation, as they all tested a certain tire and everybody did fine, now, they change up on everybody, and several people lost it and wrecked and some just lost it and saved it.

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I just watched David Gilliland go through turns 3 & 4 and spin. He rear ended the wall but in his first lap had the car 13th fastest. Now that he wrecked the car he is forced to use a back up car and go to the back of the field. He will be allowed to use his 13th place run to choose his pit. Question is do you think it is right that they get to use an untested car to enter the race ? Do you think that as long as they are medically/physically able, should they be forced to qualify the back-up car ???

This smacks of "Franconian", as in NA$CAR. Can you imagine the potential whining and moaning this could bring about. Then there would be the exponential growth of the associated rulebook.

Fer instance - say the "forced to qualify" was reality. Upon the "forced" effort, he attains the pole. That where he starts?

At the other end, say the "forced" effort results in "failed to qualify". Now what?

Say the "forced" effort results in another wreck. Try again? If the premise is to ensure "testing" (qualifying) the machine, and were the ruling to continue to be that the inital effort has already insured a start, the third effort couldn't be denied, or could it? But then there'd have to be justification of (a rule for) the reasoning.

Now multiply the above mess by perhaps 4 - 6 wrecked qualifying attempts "salted" by the one obvious purposefull wreck by the driver/team that realized the primary vehicle was junk.

Let's see - guess the vote here is - it ain't real bad just the way it is. However, Brian would be proud to claim the idea.

[simple simon]

does qualifying qualify the car or the driver ?

hope im being clear enough

to make Mike24 happy lets say JG wrecks his car in practice....then he qualifies his back-up on the pole.....then in practice he wrecks his back-up....add to the mix that at the time JG is in the points lead.....now can JG get in the #25 car to keep in the points race ?

i hope this post doesnt confuse anyone and i know its a longshot but i wonder about these things

[LSC9901]

Of the 53 cars that attempted only 2 crashed without a time, so the 4-6 number is not a factual #. Keep in mind that most teams won't know they have junk until after the first lap. At that point if they have a qualifying time a wreck doesn't matter. With the expense of the car I can't be persuaded to believe that any owner would tell the driver to "Wreck it, wreck it".

The time it would take to qualify shouldn't be a big issue. This year there are 6-10 new teams trying each week so even if they had to start qualifying earlier it could be done. They are currently making time compensations for the new inspection process.

Don't misunderstand my point in this thread. Even though I am Brian France's best friend I'm not about to make a change in the system !!! This is all about discussion. Pure & simple.

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Of the 53 cars that attempted only 2 crashed without a time, so the 4-6 number is not a factual #. Keep in mind that most teams won't know they have junk until after the first lap. At that point if they have a qualifying time a wreck doesn't matter. With the expense of the car I can't be persuaded to believe that any owner would tell the driver to "Wreck it, wreck it".

The time it would take to qualify shouldn't be a big issue. This year there are 6-10 new teams trying each week so even if they had to start qualifying earlier it could be done. They are currently making time compensations for the new inspection process.

Don't misunderstand my point in this thread. Even though I am Brian France's best friend I'm not about to make a change in the system !!! This is all about discussion. Pure & simple.

only 2 crashed without a time, so the 4-6 number is not a factual - and was not presented as so (factual). The number is of no consequence, it's the - what will be done (ruled) were "forced to qualify" be the standard, and can it be implemented in a fair and equitable manner. Me thinks the teams with seemingly endless funds would possibly be handed an advantage over those with less. Plays to the NA$CAR thing.

Keep in mind that most teams won't know they have junk until after the first lap - Not so I promise.What I have in mind is the week after week spent preparing equipment for competition and the times it became very clear, way, way before lap one was completed that we had prepared "junk". Also in mind was that "junk" was relative. Had occasion when our "junk" was better than others "non-junk". So it is possible that at end of lap one our "junk" was in the field along with knowing that the one in the hauler could easily be made better. So yeah, the wreck after lap one, accidental or staged, does/can matter - big time.


to believe that any owner would tell the driver to "Wreck it, wreck it" I can't imagine this either, but my imagination becomes limited by the bounds of known wealth (the world in which I live). I could however be easily persuaded that there are those in a stratosphere (of wealth) that cannot even see or be concerned with the money in their toys. Forget persuaded, likely we've all seen the "ridiculous rich" act with total disregard for cost. There are those who live at that level within NA$CAR.

[Mike24]

Gilliland had a good car, just over-drove it in 3.

And do I believe they should let them re-run qualifying? NO! I think they should let the time he previously posted stand. The crew has 1 (or 2?) practice sessions to make the backup car as good as the primary car was.

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by simple simon

does qualifying qualify the car or the driver ?

hope im being clear enough

to make Mike24 happy lets say JG wrecks his car in practice....then he qualifies his back-up on the pole.....then in practice he wrecks his back-up....add to the mix that at the time JG is in the points lead.....now can JG get in the #25 car to keep in the points race ?

i hope this post doesnt confuse anyone and i know its a longshot but i wonder about these things

qualifying qualifies the car AND the driver.

In your scenario, JG would be credited with the pole, but would have to start in the back (changed cars). In addition, any points he wins driving the 25 would go to the 25 car, not his 24 car. For the championship the driver gets credited with the points he earns, not what the car earns.

Clear enough?

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by simple simon

does qualifying qualify the car or the driver ?

hope im being clear enough

to make Mike24 happy lets say JG wrecks his car in practice....then he qualifies his back-up on the pole.....then in practice he wrecks his back-up....add to the mix that at the time JG is in the points lead.....now can JG get in the #25 car to keep in the points race ?

i hope this post doesnt confuse anyone and i know its a longshot but i wonder about these things

LOL!

The team would either build another car with the same setup he had previously, or they would grab a car from another track that is similar.

[Bob Tanner]

Let's see..

A.J. Almendinger has to go home but he qualified faster than nine drivers who will start the race. Of those nine who will start while he watches on TV, one never even completed a qualifying attempt, one qualified a full four miles per hour slower than Almendinger and nine full MPH slower than the pole car. One makes it solely on something he did eight season's ago!!

Will one of you nice people please reassure me on exactly how creditable and how legitimate this NA$CAR qualifying procedure is?

[Racer Duck]

Originally Posted by simple simon

does qualifying qualify the car or the driver ?

hope im being clear enough

to make Mike24 happy lets say JG wrecks his car in practice....then he qualifies his back-up on the pole.....then in practice he wrecks his back-up....add to the mix that at the time JG is in the points lead.....now can JG get in the #25 car to keep in the points race ?

i hope this post doesnt confuse anyone and i know its a longshot but i wonder about these things

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Let's see..

A.J. Almendinger has to go home but he qualified faster than nine drivers who will start the race. Of those nine who will start while he watches on TV, one never even completed a qualifying attempt, one qualified a full four miles per hour slower than Almendinger and nine full MPH slower than the pole car. One makes it solely on something he did eight season's ago!!

Will one of you nice people please reassure me on exactly how creditable and how legitimate this NA$CAR qualifying procedure is?

It's just the way NA$CAR keeps the hi $$$ sponsors happy. It doesn't have anything to do with racin'