[Mike24]

Lets see.

35. AJ Allmendinger 179.964
36. David Ragan 179.826
37. Mike Bliss 179.778
38. Jeff Gordon 179.635
39. Matt Kesneth 179.462
40. Robby Gordon 179.342
41. John Andretti 179.223
42. Ryan Newman 179.217
43. Ricky Rudd 179.051

Pretty sad that Allmendinger, Bliss, and Andretti won't be able to race because of the qualifying system.

[wingkey1]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Let's see..

A.J. Almendinger has to go home but he qualified faster than nine drivers who will start the race. Of those nine who will start while he watches on TV, one never even completed a qualifying attempt, one qualified a full four miles per hour slower than Almendinger and nine full MPH slower than the pole car. One makes it solely on something he did eight season's ago!!

Will one of you nice people please reassure me on exactly how creditable and how legitimate this NA$CAR qualifying procedure is?

OK, OK it all came to me in a vision/dream (nightmare?) last night and your question is some form of distance manifested ESP that exists simply so the combination of our thoughts and queries may enlighten the world(?). Wow did my fingers really type that?

It's credible and legitimate simply because it is (written). Its the unfair, outdated, inequitable, with a slice of perhaps stupid that flares us/me. I digress.

Here's the real reason, and I've end point that is an actual happening that helps the understanding (fun) of it.

If only those that deserve to race race, the fear is that the equal and competitive environment could result in racing. Taken further the little minds saw a single file line of vehicles going round and round looking like a chain. Taken still further, the minds(?) saw a lack of "obstacles" for the leaders to weave in and out and through repeatedly. Figure eight racing already existed, so that approach was out. Stationary objects place on the track was an idea rejected because it would simply have resulted in those in the stands exclaming - "there's Darrell".

Now - the actual happening. Was at a race one year, scanner in place. One of the final years for Darrell Waltrip. He almost consistently started at/towards the rear and managed to get a lap or two down seemingly within the first 10 - 20 laps. At one point, fairly deep into the race Schraeder comes in over the scanner with a question to his crew - "How many "17" cars are there out here?"

Spilt our beverages laughing.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Mike24

Lets see.

35. AJ Allmendinger 179.964
36. David Ragan 179.826
37. Mike Bliss 179.778
38. Jeff Gordon 179.635
39. Matt Kesneth 179.462
40. Robby Gordon 179.342
41. John Andretti 179.223
42. Ryan Newman 179.217
43. Ricky Rudd 179.051

Pretty sad that Allmendinger, Bliss, and Andretti won't be able to race because of the qualifying system.

No, No my friend ... it's the lack of a fair and equitable qualifying system. I have to believe that at some point Toyota is going to start crying foul when they have to keep going home but yet their times are faster than some. Jarrett only has a couple more free passes and he'll be joining the rest of the Toyoter gang.

[Phils20]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

Let's see..

A.J. Almendinger has to go home but he qualified faster than nine drivers who will start the race. Of those nine who will start while he watches on TV, one never even completed a qualifying attempt, one qualified a full four miles per hour slower than Almendinger and nine full MPH slower than the pole car. One makes it solely on something he did eight season's ago!!

Will one of you nice people please reassure me on exactly how creditable and how legitimate this NA$CAR qualifying procedure is?

NASCARS procedure sucks. I know what it is all about, it was for rewarding drivers who ran a full season, and to fill fields. None of that is needed these days, so qual em the way NHRA does. Get in the field on speed or go home!

Like that will ever happen! It would be the only fair way to do it, but that is just a dream. I do hope they cut it back a bit. I would like to see the top 40 speeds get in, and that would at least open up five more spots, and get rid of any considerations for the previous years points!

I hope that if Toyota showing up does anything, it opens up NASCARS eyes about what an "old boys club" racing has become. Anyone can see that DJ was only hired to get Toyota a spot in the field, every week.

And DJ took the money and ran! Who can blame him.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Phils20

Anyone can see that DJ was only hired to get Toyota a spot in the field, every week.

And DJ took the money and ran! Who can blame him.

Nascar actually has changed. They've reduced the number of times a past champion can use that excuse.

[Phils20]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Nascar actually has changed. They've reduced the number of times a past champion can use that excuse.

True, I had forgotten that! Thanks for pointing that out! Guess I shold wake up bofore my first post of the day! Still, that one should be the first one to go!

At least that is a start! Now just cup out a fe more, and we'll be in business!!

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Phils20

True, I had forgotten that! Thanks for pointing that out! Guess I shold wake up bofore my first post of the day! Still, that one should be the first one to go!

At least that is a start! Now just cup out a fe more, and we'll be in business!!

Oh how I agree with you. Go fast or go home. Not that I care for Waltrip but after the 1st 5 races this year the top 35 will be determined by the top 35 in owner points. He has nothing from last year and can't get in on speed this year, due in part to the antiquated system. He might as well stay home since he has a ngative chance at all.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

If only those that deserve to race race, the fear is that the equal and competitive environment could result in racing. Taken further the little minds saw a single file line of vehicles going round and round looking like a chain. Taken still further, the minds(?) saw a lack of "obstacles" for the leaders to weave in and out and through repeatedly. Figure eight racing already existed, so that approach was out. Stationary objects place on the track was an idea rejected because it would simply have resulted in those in the stands exclaming - "there's Darrell".

Great one, Wing! If GTG gave monthly awards for Most Entertaining Post of the Month," yours would undoubtedly get it for March.

The sad thing is that NA$CAR's Chosen Rule is so blatantly unfair and is so inequitably applied. It is in place to doublely ensure that NA$CAR Truly Chosen, Jeffie-Pooh, The King of the Red Army, and now Juan Pablo (I haven't come up with a pseudonym for him yet but I'm working on it), will be in every starting lineup.

NA$CAR has this same rule in Cup Lite, but it's set at 30, not 35. There it might make sense to increase the Chosen Rule to as much as forty. Take a close look at the Series formerly known as Busch. Did you realize that since 2002, besides Brewco and PPC Racing the numbers of BGN team owners NOT affiliated with CUP can be counted on the fingers of one hand?

I digress

Where this will jump up and bite NA$CAR on its preferential-treating butt is in the sponsor area. The rice-powered NASCARmobile.2's won't hurt. They're in it for the long haul and will just buy their way into an existing successful team.

Red Bull is another story.

This is an international company (Bed Bull GmbH, headquartered in Fuschl am See) known world-wide. It has made its mark on the consumer by putting almost all of its advertising money in sports and the vast majority of that in racing, of one stripe or another. For them to get their thongs in a wad and tell NA$CAR to shove it would be a MAJOR black eye for Brian Z. & Co. (BIG companies do this; does anyone remember the Tabasco fiasco in NASCAR of the mid-90's?)

The last four or five times I've heard Chip Ganassi and Felix Sabates interviewed they have complained about the Chosen 35 Rule, so it's not just us.

I'll predict that the Chosen Rule will be modified (unfortunately it has as much chance of completely going away as I have being mistaken for an American Idol) before season's end. It'll probably be reduced to 25 or 30, but only after NA$CAR comes up with some silly way to ensure that its most popular drivers are in EVERY race.

[Phils20]

Bob, not that I'm a Gordon fan, but this rule is pretty far from helping him out! I think he has only used a handul of them. I was even thinking only one, but I may be wrong about that!

My driver, unfortunately, has really been taking his share latley!! Bobby Labonte!

The obvious choices are DJ, Bill Elliot, and even Terry Labone last year, in helping out the 96. DW is beyond an example!

I think we can all agree the provisionals should go, however. To bad NASCAR doesn't have the guts to do it!

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Phils20

Bob, not that I'm a Gordon fan, but this rule is pretty far from helping him out! I think he has only used a handul of them. I was even thinking only one, but I may be wrong about that!

I think we can all agree the provisionals should go, however. To bad NASCAR doesn't have the guts to do it!

I agree, Phil However, I believe I said, but I probably didn't make it clear, that The Chosen Rule is there to ENSURE that NA$CAR's most popular are in the field each week. Whether they need the help or not is another story.

NA$CAR hides this preferencial driver treatment by labeling the Chosen Rule being based on owner points. NASCAR's most popular drivers are intwined with the most successful owners.

I wouldn't say "...we can all..." There are a significant number of NA$CAR-huggers out there who have the philosphy that if "their" driver doesn't make the race, then there is no race.

Actual case in point: I was debating this Chosen Rule with a card-carrying member of The Red Army one day last year. He told me I was crazy for wanting the fastest to start every race. I was informed that, "I go to three or four races every year and if Junior messes up in qualifying and doesn't make the race, I've wasted my money!" I swear by everything that's holy that is an almost exact quote.

Sorry. I just do not relate to that line of reasoning.

[InTheWall]

KK is going to win you watch and see

[Phils20]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

I agree, Phil However, I believe I said, but I probably didn't make it clear, that The Chosen Rule is there to ENSURE that NA$CAR's most popular are in the field each week. Whether they need the help or not is another story.

NA$CAR hides this preferencial driver treatment by labeling the Chosen Rule being based on owner points. NASCAR's most popular drivers are intwined with the most successful owners.

I wouldn't say "...we can all..." There are a significant number of NA$CAR-huggers out there who have the philosphy that if "their" driver doesn't make the race, then there is no race.

Actual case in point: I was debating this Chosen Rule with a card-carrying member of The Red Army one day last year. He told me I was crazy for wanting the fastest to start every race. I was informed that, "I go to three or four races every year and if Junior messes up in qualifying and doesn't make the race, I've wasted my money!" I swear by everything that's holy that is an almost exact quote.

Sorry. I just do not relate to that line of reasoning.

Very true! Great points! We're very m uch on the same page!

And that Red Army fan, oooo boy. Some folks. Although I'm very much a fan of my driver, I can't see going to the race ever being a waste of money! I just love being at the track. Kind of luck football in this area. You can tell how well the Eagles are doing by how many folks are out doing chores when they are losing. They are not real fans of the sport, or even of thier team!

[trollmc08]

GO FAST OR GO HOME enough said.