[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by trollmc08

Dang Mike, Don't take this question wrong but are you upset because Jr. gets more attention than Jeffie poo? Because Jeffie hasn't done much lately either but we all know that can change at any given race/season

Originally Posted by Mike24

Again... Dale Earnhardt Jr being over-rated and getting more attention has nothing to do with Jeff Gordon. Why do some always bring Gordon in this situation, when it dosen't involve him?!

I have to agree with Mike tonight. All during our discussion little or nothing was mentioned about Jeff in respect to him being far greater than Jr. Our discussion this evening was about perception of being overrated. Please don't think that it was anything more than that.

Originally Posted by trollmc08

I know Gordon don't have nothing to do with Jr's rating but some people say he is over-rated because of the statistics of Tony, Jeff, Jimmy, and Jr. So my underling question is if one driver can come back and go back on top then why can't the other git back on top?

Stats are stats. If one person gets better, then the rest will look less than great. Pretty simple.

[trollmc08]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I have to agree with Mike tonight. All during our discussion little or nothing was mentioned about Jeff in respect to him being far greater than Jr. Our discussion this evening was about perception of being overrated. Please don't think that it was anything more than that.




Stats are stats. If one person gets better, then the rest will look less than great. Pretty simple.

I hope this don't mean the dreaded trailer again.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by trollmc08

I hope this don't mean the dreaded trailer again.

Not at all. The important point was that the discussion between Mike and myself was as it should be. Spirited, lively, as factual as possible, civil and most importantly on topic !!!

I've gone off topic more than once but I try never to do it and add anger to the post.

[trollmc08]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Not at all. The important point was that the discussion between Mike and myself was as it should be. Spirited, lively, as factual as possible, civil and most importantly on topic !!!

I've gone off topic more than once but I try never to do it and add anger to the post.

I do apoligize to You, Mike and other posters, I did take it off topic.

I do think Jr. has/is over-rated in the media but to me he isn't. I think of him as just another racer. I do pull for him but if he don't cut the mustard then I still love the race in it's self, with him or not.

[BringBackWilkesboro]

Originally Posted by Mike24

Was Derek Cope as popular as Jr? Was Dale Jarrett as popular as Jr? No. I don't think you understand where I'm getting from, so I'll explain more clearly.

If you are popular at a certain level, then you are expected to perform at a certain level. Jarrett and Cope were not as popular as alot of drivers, so alot wasn't expected of them, and quite frankly they did more than what was expected. But Jr is so popular, and he dosen't perform up to his expectations the popularity gives him. How is that not being over-rated? I don't understand that. You have your opinions, but I get confused over that.

I don't no if anyone has pointed this out, or if I get your drift, but popular drivers are not always expected to perform on a certain level.

I'll use Bill Elliott as an example.Awesome Bill began to decline in about '94-'95, yet he wass voted MPD 6 years strait after that. If popularity and expectations had anything to do with each other, I'm sure fans would have stopped voting for Bill around '96 or so.

I think the only reason Jr is expected to do so much is just because he was winning quite a bit up until '04. He's dropped off since then, but since he accomplished so much when many fans looked to him for guidence (I guess thats the word). On another note, he's had his share of mechanical faliures and wrecks as of late. I think that attributes to talks that he's over-rated, and again, I think he is in a sense.

[clutch]

I still maintain that he is OVER-HYPED for sure, mainly because of his old man....I think over-rated is the wrong terminology

He is a better than average driver but not in the same league as Petty, Snr and Gordon

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by trollmc08

I do apoligize to You, Mike and other posters, I did take it off topic.

I do think Jr. has/is over-rated in the media but to me he isn't. I think of him as just another racer. I do pull for him but if he don't cut the mustard then I still love the race in it's self, with him or not.

LOL it's ok dude. Sometimes we mis-understand the typed words in posts. I do it a few times.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Mike24

So you obviously didn't like Sr. Sr would move you out of the way if you didn't move out of his way. I think Gordon brings that kind of attitude. Not saying Gordon is Sr, just saying he brings that attitude. Look what he did at Chicago. Kesneth didn't go high, so Gordon just moved him. I like that, and that was one of the reasons I like Sr and Gordon.

Oh, boy! I'm gonna get my butt kicked for this one

Sr. is my favorite of all time. There's a difference. If there's a "dog" of a car in front of you and you are faster, I think you have every right for a bit of "bump-and-run" on the final lap. However, only if you're talented enough not to wreck the "bumpee". I would, however, prefer to see a clean pass for the win.

As they say, "All's fair in love, war, and the last lap!", but I do have my limits.

[BringBackWilkesboro]

Originally Posted by clutch

I still maintain that he is OVER-HYPED for sure, mainly because of his old man....I think over-rated is the wrong terminology

He is a better than average driver but not in the same league as Petty, Snr and Gordon

Agreed. I guess that's what I was looking for. Over hyped.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by BringBackWilkesboro

I don't no if anyone has pointed this out, or if I get your drift, but popular drivers are not always expected to perform on a certain level.

I'll use Bill Elliott as an example.Awesome Bill began to decline in about '94-'95, yet he wass voted MPD 6 years strait after that. If popularity and expectations had anything to do with each other, I'm sure fans would have stopped voting for Bill around '96 or so.

I think the only reason Jr is expected to do so much is just because he was winning quite a bit up until '04. He's dropped off since then, but since he accomplished so much when many fans looked to him for guidence (I guess thats the word). On another note, he's had his share of mechanical faliures and wrecks as of late. I think that attributes to talks that he's over-rated, and again, I think he is in a sense.

Yes. Elliot was winding down around that time. Again, explains perfectly on how he wasn't able to put up the stats they were expecting him to. Then again, he was getting older and his career was winding down. Jr on the other hand has just began his career. So Jr and Elliot are 2 different stories.

[trollmc08]

Originally Posted by clutch

I still maintain that he is OVER-HYPED for sure, mainly because of his old man....I think over-rated is the wrong terminology

He is a better than average driver but not in the same league as Petty, Snr and Gordon

Originally Posted by BringBackWilkesboro

Agreed. I guess that's what I was looking for. Over hyped.

O now I'll agree with that 110%, over-hyped, definitely with out question.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Mike24

Yes. Elliot was winding down around that time. Again, explains perfectly on how he wasn't able to put up the stats they were expecting him to. Then again, he was getting older and his career was winding down. Jr on the other hand has just began his career. So Jr and Elliot are 2 different stories.

Awesome comparison!

Jr. was just ranking up, while Elliott was on his way out. Still respectable.

I don't know what the heck is going on with Jr. Is it his Team? Engine builder? What? What? What?

Same could be said about Gordon. Has the loss of Everanham affected his success?

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Awesome comparison!

Jr. was just ranking up, while Elliott was on his way out. Still respectable.

I don't know what the heck is going on with Jr. Is it his Team? Engine builder? What? What? What?

Same could be said about Gordon. Has the loss of Everanham affected his success?

I think it hasn't been Gordon or the crew chief, but it has been his team. Gordon has not forgotten how to drive, but his team is just not as talented as his team in the 90's was. If the team can find what made Jeff successful in the 90's, he will be a force to be reckon with. He proved in 01 he can win a championship without Evernham, he won with Loomis. He proved in 2004 he can still contend for championships. I think Jeff should not be the person to blame, you should put the blame on Jeff's team. Jeff's team just dosen't have a clue on how to build Jeff's cars, although I have seen improvement, and hopefully that improvement carries on this year where they can finally win another championship.

Off topic! But that's my 2 cents about that issue.

Jr's team builds great cars. Jr just dosen't have the drive to drive the car to its full abilities like Gordon, Stewart, Johnson, etc does. I do think the team can step it up a notch, but if Jr can step up his drive, I think he will be alot better than he has shown he is.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Mike24

I think it hasn't been Gordon or the crew chief, but it has been his team. Gordon has not forgotten how to drive, but his team is just not as talented as his team in the 90's was. If the team can find what made Jeff successful in the 90's, he will be a force to be reckon with. He proved in 01 he can win a championship without Evernham, he won with Loomis. He proved in 2004 he can still contend for championships. I think Jeff should not be the person to blame, you should put the blame on Jeff's team. Jeff's team just dosen't have a clue on how to build Jeff's cars, although I have seen improvement, and hopefully that improvement carries on this year where they can finally win another championship.

Off topic! But that's my 2 cents about that issue.

Jr's team builds great cars. Jr just dosen't have the drive to drive the car to its full abilities like Gordon, Stewart, Johnson, etc does. I do think the team can step it up a notch, but if Jr can step up his drive, I think he will be alot better than he has shown he is.

Oh, boy! Now you've done it, my friend!

I agreed with the first half of your post, but how can you say Jr. doesn't have the same drive as Gordon, Stewart, and especially Johnson? Doesn't have the drive? Oh, that comment just breaks my heart! Don't put Gordon, Stewart, and Jr. in the same league as Johnson.

You blame Jeff's team, yet blame Jr.'s ability to drive the car to its full abilities. I'm sensing a bit of hypocrisy here. Made me nauseous! I'm speechless!

[Nevadastars]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Oh, boy! Now you've done it, my friend!

Penny, you will soon realize you are beating a dead horse with Mike. This year, I'm just going to try and sit back and watch the fireworks, instead of lighting them.