[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

BTW: Not to defend Mrs. Harvick, but I believe the removal of hats during the National Anthem refers to the men. It is optional for the ladies.

Optional it is, but the "accepted standards" were written many years ago and in todays society it is anticipated that any woman wearing a ball cap type hat should remove it out of respect for who and what it stands for. Now if you're talking the Kentucky Derby where women get all dolled up and wear fancy hats then I'll go with what you are saying. How tough is it to take off a ball cap ?? Genearlly a lot of the spouses wear the same suit as many of their hubby's wear or blue jeans. They are NOT all gussied up.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Oh, no, Q. The last thing I want to do is open a can of worms ... especially related to Harvick. Not worth my energy.

All I know is that while in the stands during the National Anthem, the ladies typically don't remove their hats.

My comment was just a sidebar ...

Jeez! I keep getting myself in trouble!

Not sure that is completely true. I'm guessing, percentage wise, there are more that do remove then those that do not. Next race listen to what the track announcer really says to the fans.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by Nevadastars

I havent read this entire thread, but I dont think anyone mentioned his two Busch Championships in a row. That in itself is reason to have a faithful following. The guy is a racer, pure and simple. I remember one time he was leading at South Boston, I believe. He had a half lap advantage and was trying to get around a veteran racer whos name escapes me at the moment.
Jr. patiently dogged him trying everything to get around him high and low, but lap after lap, the guy kept blocking him. Meanwhile the 2nd place guy caught Jr. and then Jr. dumped the lapper because he had to go! Nascar black-flagged Jr. to the crowds displeasure. After the race Jr. said, "Hey, if their gonna block me when I'm leading, thats what their gonna get". I loved it and I will never forget that race. He made me a fan forever, no matter who his father is.

True, he did win a Busch championship. Then again, that was the Busch series. Since he came to Cup, he's only won 17 races, and has 0 cup titles. But, alot of the fans and media still think he is a legend and the best ever, when he isn't.

Very opinionated subject for sure, which is a good thing.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Optional it is, but the "accepted standards" were written many years ago and in todays society it is anticipated that any woman wearing a ball cap type hat should remove it out of respect for who and what it stands for. Now if you're talking the Kentucky Derby where women get all dolled up and wear fancy hats then I'll go with what you are saying. How tough is it to take off a ball cap ?? Genearlly a lot of the spouses wear the same suit as many of their hubby's wear or blue jeans. They are NOT all gussied up.

I see. So if I'm in the stands wearing a baseball-type cap, I should remove it. But if I'm wearing a "fashion" hat, or something like Roush wears, it's not disrespectful to leave it on?

I'm not arguing. I'm just trying to understand.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Mike24

I am talking about the fans and the media of what they expect of Jr. His expectations are too high, yet he dosen't meet them, which again means over-rated and over-hyped.

So what I am getting from you on this statement is that the FANS expectations are too high. We have no idea of what his own personal expectations of and for himself are. That is what I understand from your responses.

So now I would again ask if MY expectations (or those of the fans & media) of how Jr performs are higher than his ability (stats) is he overrated ? If you answer yes I can only surmise that you would have to agree that he is definitely overhyped. How can someone be overrated on the expectations of others. If I had expectations that my wife was going to bring my kids up one way but she did it another way is she overrated or did she just not meet MY expectations.

Overhyped I will go along with.

Now on to the Gordon topic. First this is not a Gordon thread in the respect that his name continues to come up. At least once and likely more than once, Mike has admitted that Gordo isn't the best driver. Lets let that discussion end unless you want to create a thread where you can discuss the good and bad of Jeff Gordon. I'll just remind you that we went down that road before and if you search hard enough you'll find the thread and find that it was CLOSED because it's original intent had been lost to bashing. The individual who started this thread has zero bearing on how we respond to the TOPIC of the thread.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

I see. So if I'm in the stands wearing a baseball-type cap, I should remove it. But if I'm wearing a "fashion" hat, or something like Roush wears, it's not disrespectful to leave it on?

I'm not arguing. I'm just trying to understand.

What I am trying to say is that years ago when women were all dressed up and had fancy hats that were a job to put on and take off it was the accepted standard to leave the hat on. If you do a google on ettiquite for the wearing of a hat during the playing of the national anthem I believe you'll find that, TODAY, woman, while not required, are expected to remove their hat if they are wearing a ball cap type of hat. Easy to remove, easy to put back on. There is no law saying they MUST. As a veteran I find that a hat as easy as a ball cap SHOULD OUT OF RESPECT be taken off.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

So what I am getting from you on this statement is that the FANS expectations are too high. We have no idea of what his own personal expectations of and for himself are. That is what I understand from your responses.

So now I would again ask if MY expectations (or those of the fans & media) of how Jr performs are higher than his ability (stats) is he overrated ? If you answer yes I can only surmise that you would have to agree that he is definitely overhyped. How can someone be overrated on the expectations of others. If I had expectations that my wife was going to bring my kids up one way but she did it another way is she overrated or did she just not meet MY expectations.

Overhyped I will go along with.

Now on to the Gordon topic. First this is not a Gordon thread in the respect that his name continues to come up. At least once and likely more than once, Mike has admitted that Gordo isn't the best driver. Lets let that discussion end unless you want to create a thread where you can discuss the good and bad of Jeff Gordon. I'll just remind you that we went down that road before and if you search hard enough you'll find the thread and find that it was CLOSED because it's original intent had been lost to bashing. The individual who started this thread has zero bearing on how we respond to the TOPIC of the thread.

I'm done. No more from me on Jr. vs. Gordon in this string!

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

So what I am getting from you on this statement is that the FANS expectations are too high. We have no idea of what his own personal expectations of and for himself are. That is what I understand from your responses.

So now I would again ask if MY expectations (or those of the fans & media) of how Jr performs are higher than his ability (stats) is he overrated ? If you answer yes I can only surmise that you would have to agree that he is definitely overhyped. How can someone be overrated on the expectations of others. If I had expectations that my wife was going to bring my kids up one way but she did it another way is she overrated or did she just not meet MY expectations.

Overhyped I will go along with.

Now on to the Gordon topic. First this is not a Gordon thread in the respect that his name continues to come up. At least once and likely more than once, Mike has admitted that Gordo isn't the best driver. Lets let that discussion end unless you want to create a thread where you can discuss the good and bad of Jeff Gordon. I'll just remind you that we went down that road before and if you search hard enough you'll find the thread and find that it was CLOSED because it's original intent had been lost to bashing. The individual who started this thread has zero bearing on how we respond to the TOPIC of the thread.

LOL. Well that is different from racing.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

What I am trying to say is that years ago when women were all dressed up and had fancy hats that were a job to put on and take off it was the accepted standard to leave the hat on. If you do a google on ettiquite for the wearing of a hat during the playing of the national anthem I believe you'll find that, TODAY, woman, while not required, are expected to remove their hat if they are wearing a ball cap type of hat. Easy to remove, easy to put back on. There is no law saying they MUST. As a veteran I find that a hat as easy as a ball cap SHOULD OUT OF RESPECT be taken off.

Gotcha! I'll remember that the next time I attend a race.

[Nevadastars]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Lets let that discussion end unless you want to create a thread where you can discuss the good and bad of Jeff Gordon. I'll just remind you that we went down that road before and if you search hard enough you'll find the thread and find that it was CLOSED because it's original intent had been lost to bashing.

We went down that road MANY times, and it basically ends up with Mike24 attacking the Gordon bashers. And they ALWAYS get locked because Mike cannot handle anyone bashing Gordo. He has proven this time and time again. For most of us, it was in good fun, but some people take it waaaaay too seriously. I'm not attacking him or trying to start anything, just stating the truth.

I was even asked by Ross to get rid of my "when its crying time, Jeff Gordon rises to the occasion" signature because of it. It could have been any other driver, and nothing would have been said. HTH

Now, back to your regularly scheduled Jr. thread

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by Nevadastars

We went down that road MANY times, and it basically ends up with Mike24 attacking the Gordon bashers. And they ALWAYS get locked because Mike cannot handle anyone bashing Gordo. He has proven this time and time again. For most of us, it was in good fun, but some people take it waaaaay too seriously. I'm not attacking him or trying to start anything, just stating the truth.

I was even asked by Ross to get rid of my "when its crying time, Jeff Gordon rises to the occasion" signature because of it. It could have been any other driver, and nothing would have been said. HTH

Now, back to your regularly scheduled Jr. thread

Hmmmmmmm, all I have to say is...... thanks for giving me a compliment about being passionate about the sport, and my favorite driver, Jeff Gordon. I appreciate it alot.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Nevadastars

We went down that road MANY times, and it basically ends up with Mike24 attacking the Gordon bashers. And they ALWAYS get locked because Mike cannot handle anyone bashing Gordo. He has proven this time and time again. For most of us, it was in good fun, but some people take it waaaaay too seriously. I'm not attacking him or trying to start anything, just stating the truth.

I was even asked by Ross to get rid of my "when its crying time, Jeff Gordon rises to the occasion" signature because of it. It could have been any other driver, and nothing would have been said. HTH

Now, back to your regularly scheduled Jr. thread

Oh, thank you, Navadastars! I thought it was just me! I, too, thought this was all in good fun!

Yes, yes ... let's get back to the regularly scheduled Jr. thread!

So, tell me, shouldn't the crew chief have communicated to Jr. that the pits were closed Sunday? At the very least, he could have just driven through.

He was doing pretty good, then he screwed up, and he paid for it. Doesn't make him a bad driver.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Oh, thank you, Navadastars! I thought it was just me! I, too, thought this was all in good fun!

Yes, yes ... let's get back to the regularly scheduled Jr. thread!

So, tell me, shouldn't the crew chief have communicated to Jr. that the pits were closed Sunday? At the very least, he could have just driven through.

He was doing pretty good, then he screwed up, and he paid for it. Doesn't make him a bad driver.

I won't go on with this, I'm so sick and tired of talking about the past. But really, I've learned to take these comments and turn them into positives for me and Gordon fans. It just proves we are some of the most passionate fans in the sport, and how much we care about our driver, and our team, HMS. Jr fans are really passionate as well, that's one thing Gordon and Jr fans have in common.

I thought I was done with this issue? MAN I'm full of opinions!

Back to Jr.

His crew chief could have told him. Obviously he didn't know.

No, just because he made that mistake dosen't mean he is a bad driver, and I'm not saying he is. But he should have been paying attention to the light, not the 31 car. Not saying his head is somewhere else, but sometimes I question whether his head is into racing, and that is another moment when I did.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Mike24

I won't go on with this, I'm so sick and tired of talking about the past. But really, I've learned to take these comments and turn them into positives for me and Gordon fans. It just proves we are some of the most passionate fans in the sport, and how much we care about our driver, and our team, HMS. Jr fans are really passionate as well, that's one thing Gordon and Jr fans have in common.

Back to Jr.

His crew chief could have told him. Obviously he didn't know.

No, just because he made that mistake dosen't mean he is a bad driver, and I'm not saying he is. But he should have been paying attention to the light, not the 31 car. Not saying his head is somewhere else, but sometimes I question whether his head is into racing, and that is another moment when I did.

And that's my final message to you.

Peace Out, man!

[Team Yates]

The popularity of this thread is over-rated!!