[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Mike24

Well the sad part is it's true. Jr got his popularity off of Sr's death, and it wasn't in Jr's control at all. Sr would have wanted Jr to earn his fans like he, Gordon, Stewart ,etc have all earned.

I'm really not bothered if Jr is popular than my driver. I look at his expectations, and the stats he has put up. If the stats hasn't met any of the expectations, yet he still receives hype and a ton of expectations, then that means he is over-rated and over-hyped.

Maybe he should go to a company like Childress, so we can see him in top equipment, and see how he does? As long as he stays with DEI, he dosen't have the best opportunity to win a championship.

I know we basically see this the same way Mike but could you define expectations for me once again ?? I seem to recall you use the word expectations from the point of view of everyone but Jr. In other words you see "HIS" expectations as those expectations of his fans. Is that correct ?? If so then again I agree overhyped but not overrated. His stats speak for his ability and not his expectations. Stats can never speak of expectations. Expectations are a projection of what you hope to accomplish while stats merely state what you have accomplished.

Again whose expectations are you talking about and if they are Jr.'s where are these expectations written down ?

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

I know we basically see this the same way Mike but could you define expectations for me once again ?? I seem to recall you use the word expectations from the point of view of everyone but Jr. In other words you see "HIS" expectations as those expectations of his fans. Is that correct ?? If so then again I agree overhyped but not overrated. His stats speak for his ability and not his expectations. Stats can never speak of expectations. Expectations are a projection of what you hope to accomplish while stats merely state what you have accomplished.

Again whose expectations are you talking about and if they are Jr.'s where are these expectations written down ?

I am talking about the fans and the media of what they expect of Jr. His expectations are too high, yet he dosen't meet them, which again means over-rated and over-hyped.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Gr8RaceFan

Stats dont MAKE anything, they just count specific things. They also dont stand alone, you have to look at the outliers for each of those categories. Such as same 10 years, same experience level, same life events, same failed motors, blown tires, and/or pit stop mishaps for example. I like Jr but I like many of the drivers and rarely am I disappointed in who wins. (Unless their name is Gordon or Busch ) When I pick drivers that I really "like" it is usually based on a few different things......like who would I want to spend an average day with. I think it would be great fun to spend the day with Jr. or Tony or Jeff Burton or Elliott. It has nothing to do with their stats. Matt has awesome stats but to me he is BORING!! Kevin Harvick is putting up awesome stats.....I am not a fan nor will I ever be. (His wife wont remove her hat during the National Anthem ) So if stats is your thing..........pick your driver that way, but be careful...........you can often skew the results to fit your opinion.

Gr8RaceFan,

I couldn't agree with you more! Especially the drivers you picked to spend the day with! I would add two more, and that would be Kahne and Martin.

Stats, schmats!

BTW: Not to defend Mrs. Harvick, but I believe the removal of hats during the National Anthem refers to the men. It is optional for the ladies.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by casa

I haven't visited here in while and have not viewed the topics. As I clicked on this one it did not suprise me in the least that someone with the name gordon's#1fan was the one that started this thread.

I believe the person who started this thread is gone ... and that's all I'm going to say.

LSC?

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by casa

I haven't visited here in while and have not viewed the topics. As I clicked on this one it did not suprise me in the least that someone with the name gordon's#1fan was the one that started this thread.

Erm..... I get so fed up when some people think Gordon fans think Jr is over-rated because we are Gordon fans, which is entirely false..... I knew Gordon fans were some of the most passionate in the sport, but I did not realise Gordon fans had THAT bad of a rep.

But.... I will be nice.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Mike24

Well the sad part is it's true. Jr got his popularity off of Sr's death, and it wasn't in Jr's control at all. Sr would have wanted Jr to earn his fans like he, Gordon, Stewart ,etc have all earned.

I'm really not bothered if Jr is popular than my driver. I look at his expectations, and the stats he has put up. If the stats hasn't met any of the expectations, yet he still receives hype and a ton of expectations, then that means he is over-rated and over-hyped.

Maybe he should go to a company like Childress, so we can see him in top equipment, and see how he does? As long as he stays with DEI, he dosen't have the best opportunity to win a championship.

Mike24,

Now you are really testing me! I know how you are!

I'm taking a deep breath before I type this ...

Are you saying that Jr. didn't "earn" his popularity? Again, how popular is Sr.'s other son, Kerry? Not very! Why? Because on the rare occasions he races, he typically wrecks.

Jr.'s popularity is not due to Sr.'s death. Jr. was an icon all on his own before we lost his dad. At the track, the most "popular" trailers selling novelties were Sr., then Jr. ... then Gordon, then Rusty. Trust me, I had to fight the crowds to get to the Earnhardt trailers.

Don't hit me, but one of the reasons many fans don't like Gordon is simple: He was born into money, his parents focused on his driving even to the point of relocating. These are facts, my friend. He's not considered a "good ol' boy".

You and I have been over this recently, but you brought up the Jr./Gordon thing by saying that Gordon earned his way up, and Jr. didn't. I couldn't let that go!

Ok ... I'm ready ... let me have it!

[Quality88]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

BTW: Not to defend Mrs. Harvick, but I believe the removal of hats during the National Anthem refers to the men. It is optional for the ladies.

Oh PPS... why did you have to open that can of worms. Do a search for the thread on her hat... and you'll understand more of what some of us think.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Quality88

Oh PPS... why did you have to open that can of worms. Do a search for the thread on her hat... and you'll understand more of what some of us think.

Oh, no, Q. The last thing I want to do is open a can of worms ... especially related to Harvick. Not worth my energy.

All I know is that while in the stands during the National Anthem, the ladies typically don't remove their hats.

My comment was just a sidebar ...

Jeez! I keep getting myself in trouble!

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Mike24,

Now you are really testing me! I know how you are!

I'm taking a deep breath before I type this ...

Are you saying that Jr. didn't "earn" his popularity? Again, how popular is Sr.'s other son, Kerry? Not very! Why? Because on the rare occasions he races, he typically wrecks.

Jr.'s popularity is not due to Sr.'s death. Jr. was an icon all on his own before we lost his dad. At the track, the most "popular" trailers selling novelties were Sr., then Jr. ... then Gordon, then Rusty. Trust me, I had to fight the crowds to get to the Earnhardt trailers.

Don't hit me, but one of the reasons many fans don't like Gordon is simple: He was born into money, his parents focused on his driving even to the point of relocating. These are facts, my friend. He's not considered a "good ol' boy".

You and I have been over this recently, but you brought up the Jr./Gordon thing by saying that Gordon earned his way up, and Jr. didn't. I couldn't let that go!

Ok ... I'm ready ... let me have it!

Well I'm not in that "many", that's for sure.

Yes, I am saying Jr didn't earn his popularity. Jr got 90% of his popularity from Sr. The other 5% is because it is cool to be a Jr fan, and the other 5% is people who were Jr fans since the beginning.

Jr was no where near an icon before Sr died. Yes, he did win 2 races in 2000, but he still wasn't that popular before Sr's death. Once Sr died, almost all of the Sr fans went to Jr. Of course I was a Sr and a Gordon fan, but I wasn't gonna play follow the leader, so I stayed with Gordon.

I don't want to go on about Gordon, but yes, he is hated because he had success early. And the main thing he is hated for is because he beat Sr time and time again in the 90's. It was hard for Sr fans to accept it, but the truth hurts.

No, I never said Gordon didn't earn his way up and Jr didn't. I said Gordon earned his fans, and he earned alot of haters due to his early success. Jr hasn't really did anything great. He showed something in 2004, and I thought the over-rated tag was getting ready to be taken off of him, cause he looked in championship form. But he has fallen off since.

The name "Earnhardt" means instant success according to alot of fans and the media. And just because Jr has Earnhardt in his name dosen't mean he is a legend, and a champion already. That just proves my point once again that he is over-hyped and over-rated. And to some fans, he will always be over-rated in the shadow of Sr. I think he can take the over-rated tag off of him, but it's gonna take a championship to do that, and I have my doubts if he ever will.

And he made a bonehead move at Vegas, yet they tried to cover it up for him. It just proves again Jr dosen't have his head into racing, it's somewhere else.

[trollmc08]

Originally Posted by Mike24

Erm..... I get so fed up when some people think Gordon fans think Jr is over-rated because we are Gordon fans, which is entirely false..... I knew Gordon fans were some of the most passionate in the sport, but I did not realise Gordon fans had THAT bad of a rep.

But.... I will be nice.

I'm out of this

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Mike24

Well I'm not in that "many", that's for sure.

Yes, I am saying Jr didn't earn his popularity. Jr got 90% of his popularity from Sr. The other 5% is because it is cool to be a Jr fan, and the other 5% is people who were Jr fans since the beginning.

Jr was no where near an icon before Sr died. Yes, he did win 2 races in 2000, but he still wasn't that popular before Sr's death. Once Sr died, almost all of the Sr fans went to Jr. Of course I was a Sr and a Gordon fan, but I wasn't gonna play follow the leader, so I stayed with Gordon.

I don't want to go on about Gordon, but yes, he is hated because he had success early. And the main thing he is hated for is because he beat Sr time and time again in the 90's. It was hard for Sr fans to accept it, but the truth hurts.

No, I never said Gordon didn't earn his way up and Jr didn't. I said Gordon earned his fans, and he earned alot of haters due to his early success. Jr hasn't really did anything great. He showed something in 2004, and I thought the over-rated tag was getting ready to be taken off of him, cause he looked in championship form. But he has fallen off since.

The name "Earnhardt" means instant success according to alot of fans and the media. And just because Jr has Earnhardt in his name dosen't mean he is a legend, and a champion already. That just proves my point once again that he is over-hyped and over-rated. And to some fans, he will always be over-rated in the shadow of Sr. I think he can take the over-rated tag off of him, but it's gonna take a championship to do that, and I have my doubts if he ever will.

And he made a bonehead move at Vegas, yet they tried to cover it up for him. It just proves again Jr dosen't have his head into racing, it's somewhere else.

Ok, Mike ... I give! No matter what anyone says, Gordon is the best in your opinion, and you just won't give Jr. his due. Ok by me! You are a faithful fan, as I am.

This will be my last post directly to you regarding Gordon and/or Jr. ... I promise.

Yes, Jr. made a bonehead move by entering the pits while they were closed. I'm not sure who "they" were who tried to cover it up for him. The commentators? And it doesn't prove that Jr. doesn't have his head into racing at all. He didn't see the red light, was just following the car in front of him. Big deal. He screwed up. What driver hasn't?

One thing I've learned over the years by knowing a select few Gordon fans is that they are stubborn. Are you a Taurus by any chance? That's not a dig at you in any way. I'm just curious. I, in fact, am a Taurus.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by PenelopePitStop

Ok, Mike ... I give! No matter what anyone says, Gordon is the best in your opinion, and you just won't give Jr. his due. Ok by me! You are a faithful fan, as I am.

This will be my last post directly to you regarding Gordon and/or Jr. ... I promise.

Yes, Jr. made a bonehead move by entering the pits while they were closed. I'm not sure who "they" were who tried to cover it up for him. The commentators? And it doesn't prove that Jr. doesn't have his head into racing at all. He didn't see the red light, was just following the car in front of him. Big deal. He screwed up. What driver hasn't?

One thing I've learned over the years by knowing a select few Gordon fans is that they are stubborn. Are you a Taurus by any chance? That's not a dig at you in any way. I'm just curious. I, in fact, am a Taurus.

I never said Gordon was the best. Petty and Sr are better than him.

And no, I won't give Jr his due. Jr is over-rated, and he will always be until he wins a championship or starts winning more races.

He could clearly see the red light with his visor, but he wasn't paying attention, he was just following Burton. He should pay attention to the light instead of the car.

Again, my main concern is Jr, as this is a Jr thread, not a Jeff Gordon thread. So I will stop talking about him.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Mike24

I never said Gordon was the best. Petty and Sr are better than him.

And no, I won't give Jr his due. Jr is over-rated, and he will always be until he wins a championship or starts winning more races.

He could clearly see the red light with his visor, but he wasn't paying attention, he was just following Burton. He should pay attention to the light instead of the car.

Again, my main concern is Jr, as this is a Jr thread, not a Jeff Gordon thread. So I will stop talking about him.

[Nevadastars]

I havent read this entire thread, but I dont think anyone mentioned his two Busch Championships in a row. That in itself is reason to have a faithful following. The guy is a racer, pure and simple. I remember one time he was leading at South Boston, I believe. He had a half lap advantage and was trying to get around a veteran racer Tim Fedewa.

Jr. patiently dogged him trying everything to get around him high and low, but lap after lap, the guy kept blocking him. Meanwhile the 2nd place guy caught Jr. and then Jr. dumped Fedewa because he had to go! Nascar black-flagged Jr. to the crowds displeasure. After the race Jr. said, "Hey, if their gonna block me when I'm leading, thats what their gonna get". I loved it and I will never forget that race. He made me a fan forever, no matter who his father is.

[PenelopePitStop]

Originally Posted by Nevadastars

I havent read this entire thread, but I dont think anyone mentioned his two Busch Championships in a row. That in itself is reason to have a faithful following. The guy is a racer, pure and simple. I remember one time he was leading at South Boston, I believe. He had a half lap advantage and was trying to get around a veteran racer Tim Fedewa.

Jr. patiently dogged him trying everything to get around him high and low, but lap after lap, the guy kept blocking him. Meanwhile the 2nd place guy caught Jr. and then Jr. dumped Fedewa because he had to go! Nascar black-flagged Jr. to the crowds displeasure. After the race Jr. said, "Hey, if their gonna block me when I'm leading, thats what their gonna get". I loved it and I will never forget that race. He made me a fan forever, no matter who his father is.