[Mike24]

I know it's the Brian France Haters thread, but I'm gonna chip in and defend him a little if you don't mind.

Most people don't like change or can't accept change. Brian France is changing NASCAR, and most don't like it or can't accept it because they don't like change. At first I thought the Chase format was a bad idea, but it's turned out to be awesome. I would much rather see 12 drivers have a legit shot at the championship than a 2 car battle like the Winston Cup format gave you. The only problem I have with the COT is the wing, I'm very concerned about that, NASCAR should take a good look at that. But other than that, the COT looks fine. He made winning more important, and yet we focus on the negative things about Brian France than the positive things he has done? Brian France has NOT destroyed NASCAR, but he has changed it, and like I said, most people don't like change or can't accept change.

I'm not saying France hasn't made some wrong decisions. I think he needs to give teams more control with their cars, but I can see what he's doing, trying to make the competition even. He got rid of some good tracks like Rockingham for money, but France has done some good things for NASCAR, not all of them have been bad.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Mike24

I know it's the Brian France Haters thread, but I'm gonna chip in and defend him a little if you don't mind.

Most people don't like change or can't accept change. Brian France is changing NASCAR, and most don't like it or can't accept it because they don't like change. At first I thought the Chase format was a bad idea, but it's turned out to be awesome. I would much rather see 12 drivers have a legit shot at the championship than a 2 car battle like the Winston Cup format gave you. The only problem I have with the COT is the wing, I'm very concerned about that, NASCAR should take a good look at that. But other than that, the COT looks fine. He made winning more important, and yet we focus on the negative things about Brian France than the positive things he has done? Brian France has NOT destroyed NASCAR, but he has changed it, and like I said, most people don't like change or can't accept change.

I'm not saying France hasn't made some wrong decisions. I think he needs to give teams more control with their cars, but I can see what he's doing, trying to make the competition even. He got rid of some good tracks like Rockingham for money, but France has done some good things for NASCAR, not all of them have been bad.

My question to you or anyone is this. In reference to the changes in the chase program ... last year it was for 10 drivers. Tony Stewart made the chase look stupid by being stuck in 11th place. Had it been a normal 36 race season he would have ended up in 3rd or 4th place. So for this year they expand it. What will happen if the 13th place driver wins 3 or 4 of the last 10 races and loses the chance to end up in the top 10 or 12 ? Will they once again expand the number to allow more ???

Change is always difficult but as race fans we have only one option and that is to complain and post opinions. Naturally we are well aware that nothing will overcome the France families desire to create more profit, but it makes us feel good.

Just my opinion ......

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

My question to you or anyone is this. In reference to the changes in the chase program ... last year it was for 10 drivers. Tony Stewart made the chase look stupid by being stuck in 11th place. Had it been a normal 36 race season he would have ended up in 3rd or 4th place. So for this year they expand it. What will happen if the 13th place driver wins 3 or 4 of the last 10 races and loses the chance to end up in the top 10 or 12 ? Will they once again expand the number to allow more ???

Change is always difficult but as race fans we have only one option and that is to complain and post opinions. Naturally we are well aware that nothing will overcome the France families desire to create more profit, but it makes us feel good.

Just my opinion ......

They have been talking about putting 12 drivers in the Chase for awhile if I can remember correctly, maybe cause Gordon and Jr missed it in 05, but that's a whole different story. I doubt that you will be 13th if you get 3 or 4 wins with the top 12 drivers now able to get in. I don't see NASCAR putting more drivers in, and this system that NASCAR has put in to effect is a great system and hopefully isn't changed for a long time.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Mike24

They have been talking about putting 12 drivers in the Chase for awhile if I can remember correctly, maybe cause Gordon and Jr missed it in 05, but that's a whole different story. I doubt that you will be 13th if you get 3 or 4 wins with the top 12 drivers now able to get in. I don't see NASCAR putting more drivers in, and this system that NASCAR has put in to effect is a great system and hopefully isn't changed for a long time.

What I mean is 13th after the initial 26 races. That is what happened to Tony. After 26 races he was 11th and if the chase didn't exist he would have made it to 3rd or 4th. Instead the best he could do, no matter what, was 11th. What if Tony is the 13th place driver after 26 races this year and wins 3 or 4 during the last 10 like last year ??? Once again prevented from being in the top 10 or 12.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

What I mean is 13th after the initial 26 races. That is what happened to Tony. After 26 races he was 11th and if the chase didn't exist he would have made it to 3rd or 4th. Instead the best he could do, no matter what, was 11th. What if Tony is the 13th place driver after 26 races this year and wins 3 or 4 during the last 10 like last year ??? Once again prevented from being in the top 10 or 12.

It's just a change to ensure that NASCAR's most popular drivers are in the Playoffs. If you're interested in seeing NASCAR get good TV ratings based on popular driver participation, it's a good thing. If you're a race fan and put a higher priority on good, honest competition than on seeing a particular driver, then it's not. It's all a matter of perspective.

I have one question which may be answered in the rule change but I haven't taken the time to analyze it.

They give bonus points to the race winners who are in the Playoffs after 26 races, right? How about the drivers who have won but don't make the playoffs? Last year Kurt Busch, Greg Biffle and Brian Vickers all fell into this category. Now, let's take it a step further... Let's suppose a driver has enough points after 26 races that an additional ten points per win would get him into the top twelve, bumping the next higher driver back to 13th, and out of the Playoff. Do they keep twelve in the Playoff or do they expand it to 13?

Maybe this is answered in the rule change and I just haven't paid enough attention.

[Mike24]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

What I mean is 13th after the initial 26 races. That is what happened to Tony. After 26 races he was 11th and if the chase didn't exist he would have made it to 3rd or 4th. Instead the best he could do, no matter what, was 11th. What if Tony is the 13th place driver after 26 races this year and wins 3 or 4 during the last 10 like last year ??? Once again prevented from being in the top 10 or 12.

I still doubt that NASCAR will change it to 13 drivers. If NASCAR expands it more, they should just scrap the system, which they won't do and I hope they don't. If NASCAR was wanting their popular drivers in the Chase, they would have changed the system in 2006 after Jr and Gordon missed the Chase in 05. So I'm not buying how France wants the popular drivers in the Chase, like I said after Gordon and Jr missed in the Chase in 05, NASCAR would have changed the system for 2006, but they didn't. It's just another thing where NASCAR changed the system, and now everyone thinks they changed it for Stewart, which I'm not buying.

[Souporscotty]

Forgive me if I'm repeating myself; 1st place-10 pts; 2nd place-5 pts; 3rd place-2 pts. Win, place, show. Whoever does this the most, WINS. But I guess that wouldn't make for a very "Marketable Product". Kinda like "If you don't go fast enough, you can't be in the race!" Who would watch such drivel?

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Mike24

I still doubt that NASCAR will change it to 13 drivers. If NASCAR expands it more, they should just scrap the system, which they won't do and I hope they don't. If NASCAR was wanting their popular drivers in the Chase, they would have changed the system in 2006 after Jr and Gordon missed the Chase in 05. So I'm not buying how France wants the popular drivers in the Chase, like I said after Gordon and Jr missed in the Chase in 05, NASCAR would have changed the system for 2006, but they didn't. It's just another thing where NASCAR changed the system, and now everyone thinks they changed it for Stewart, which I'm not buying.

I would agree that I don't think it was done specifically for Stewart but ... in may of our discussions the subject of popular drivers missing the chase has come up. The point that NA$CAR is in this for money has also risen as a subject. If the cream of the crop isn't in the limelite for the "playoffs" the interest in the chase is diminished. Todays fans (not all) are more about drivers than racing itself so for NA$CAR to not have a Gordon, Johnson, Stewart or whoever is akin to stabbing yourself in the eye with a dull pencil. It is something no one wants to do and you'll do whatever it takes to avoid the situation.

Originally Posted by Souporscotty

Forgive me if I'm repeating myself; 1st place-10 pts; 2nd place-5 pts; 3rd place-2 pts. Win, place, show. Whoever does this the most, WINS. But I guess that wouldn't make for a very "Marketable Product". Kinda like "If you don't go fast enough, you can't be in the race!" Who would watch such drivel?

Excellent point but as noted above todays fans are about drivers .. not racing.

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by Souporscotty

Forgive me if I'm repeating myself; 1st place-10 pts; 2nd place-5 pts; 3rd place-2 pts. Win, place, show. Whoever does this the most, WINS. But I guess that wouldn't make for a very "Marketable Product". Kinda like "If you don't go fast enough, you can't be in the race!" Who would watch such drivel?

<See Bob raising hand>

[Bob Tanner]

OK, there seems to be two distinct camps out there; those who appreciate this New, Improved NA$CAR, and those of us who remember or appreciate the stock car racing NASCAR.

Forgive me for saying so but I'm not seeing a lot of common ground out there.

We're on the cusp of kicking off a new season. Does anyone have any suggestions?

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

OK, there seems to be two distinct camps out there; those who appreciate this New, Improved NA$CAR, and those of us who remember or appreciate the stock car racing NASCAR.

Forgive me for saying so but I'm not seeing a lot of common ground out there.

We're on the cusp of kicking off a new season. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Bob ... just the opposite as I see it. We all have opinions and we all complain about the views of the other. What more common ground will NASCAR fans ever have ???

[Bob Tanner]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Bob ... just the opposite as I see it. We all have opinions and we all complain about the views of the other. What more common ground will NASCAR fans ever have ???

LOL

OK, I made my token attempt at peacemaking (I do this about this time each year. It's kind of my Valentine's gift to humanity). Now, back to the old Bob.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

LOL

OK, I made my token attempt at peacemaking (I do this about this time each year. It's kind of my Valentine's gift to humanity). Now, back to the old Bob.

Soooo ........ no more Mr. Nice Guy ??

[Souporscotty]

Originally Posted by Bob Tanner

OK, there seems to be two distinct camps out there; those who appreciate this New, Improved NA$CAR, and those of us who remember or appreciate the stock car racing NASCAR.

Forgive me for saying so but I'm not seeing a lot of common ground out there.

We're on the cusp of kicking off a new season. Does anyone have any suggestions?

I think we should have a strictly "Old Farts Thread"

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Souporscotty

I think we should have a strictly "Old Farts Thread"

I'm in !!!