[BringBackWilkesboro]

For nearly 50 years, the NASCAR Busch Series/Sportsman division had been a proving ground for drivers who could not yet cut it in NASCAR's elite series. It's changed since the turn of the century. Full time Cup drivers are using it to gain experience for the Cup race, and taking rides away from those who really need them. There are many current Busch regulars who were not able to make anything of their cup careers and turned to the Busch series to do what they love competitively. The problem is they are hidden underneath the Buschwackers. Guys like Jason Leffler, Kenny Wallace, John Andretti and Stacy Compton. They all want to race and win, but Cup regulars with more experience, money and in a sense, an unfair advantage are taking away their opportunity to do what they love. In the process, they have taken alot of the interest away from the Busch Series. I guess the reason some see the Cup invasion as a good thing is that the higher profile "celebrities" bring money to the sport. That is true, but do we really need to see a glorified practice session? I don't. In more recent years, Cup Lite has become one big mess. Last year, there were only 12 full time teams that had one driver for the whole season. Other teams alternated between 2,3 even 4 drivers in one season. What is the point of watching a Busch race when the drivers keep changing and the drivers that don't change are the one you're going to see on sunday? It just gets hard to follow. So the question is, is there any point to the Busch Series?

[Lefturn]

I think that the Busch series needs to limit or even ban Cup drivers from competing. I used to watch it to see what new rookies were up and coming in the sport. But now as you stated it is a glorified test session.

I get tired of watching the Cup guys take the win most every race. I am not sure how they need to fix it, but perhaps we may see a change this season.

[Quality88]

Well, one could cut out the cup boys racin in the lower level all together. Rusty Wallace had a good idea by makin the cars a different model(which amounts to a hill of beans now with the COT). Although since Na$car has gotten into the car design buisness they could design a different version of the COT for the Busch series.

[wingkey1]

Problem is, unfortunately, the Busch series can no longer sustain itself financially. The permitted "rescue" of the series of late has been to "allow" an increasing influx of the Cup series drivers. Sponsors are still willing to cough up $$ so long as "name" is in their sponsored ride. Not so any longer for the "up and coming", sponsors just aren't interested. Sponsor $$ are getting increasingly scarce, even at the Cup level. Busch has been, and continues to be tightly coupled to Cup in that they run the same tracks on mostly the same weekends. Makes many of the cost elements similar to Cup. With sponsor $$ dwindling, the series has suffered.

Solution? Lord only knows. It's become a "tough nut" for NASCAR. They would like to continue to have a series that allows the "up and coming" drivers exposure to the "big boy" tracks but it has become increasing untenuable (financially for the owners / teams).

CTS was for the most part always more of a stand alone venture, and it has sustained itself. Even though it ran/runs on many of the same tracks as Cup, it does so more own its own dates rather than constant piggy back of Cup.

From a fan standpoint, I still like two races (Busch & Cup) at a/the tracks I attend. If for now the only way i can get the "full" weekend is invaders from Cup, guess I'll just grin, bear it, and hope for a solution that puts speration back between the two series. Without of course taking away my "full" weekend.

[trollmc08]

I am going to try and stay out of this one don't know if I can but I am going to try.

[wardfan]

It seems at this point the busch races are in a catch 22. Why would a possible new sponser want to spend money when they are up against the gollith of cup money & drivers. But at the same time they claim the cup teams bring in the money. I think they could begin by limiting the number of races a full time cup driver can race in the busch. After all they decided to limit the past champion provisionals in cup this year. It could be a place to start

[LSC9901]

Ahhhh ..... one of my pet peeve subjects. One of the interesting points made so far was that the Cup Lite series is suffering financially. If in fact this is true .. who is to blame for this issue ? I blame NASCAR itself. My feeling is they are in this business just for the profit. I've said it before and I'll say it again. There is nothing wrong with anyone who is in business, to try and make a profit. The question is to what level do you take it before it creates more of a problem than it resolves. Since the Cup series is the top dog series it would make sense to me to try and profit from this as much as possible. In baseball, along with many of the stick & ball sports, they use their minor league system (BUSCH in our case) to bring up the best for the majors. The Red Sox do not use their minor league teams to make money. As a matter of fact it is quite the opposite from that. Maybe it is just time to make Busch what it once was .... a series where the best get rewarded by being promoted to the Cup series. Worry less about making a profit. Obviously the individual teams will need to break even at the very least. Joe's Furniture World isn't going to keep pouring money into a blank hole without seeing some positive outcomes. In my own little world if I cannot make ends meet I try to make reductions in my spending habits.

Some one else metioned that they could stop piggy backing Busch and Cup series races. For some fans that could be good and for others not so good. Many fans like it because it gives them a chance to see two races in just one weekend. NASCAR probably has more luck selling a weekends worth of racing than it does trying to convince you to spend a fortune on two different weekends.

Unless and until NASCAR actually institutes some restrictions on how many races a cup driver can enter in the Busch series or banning them completely, we will continue to have this very discussion. Since, for the most part, we have very little impact on NASCAR officials, we'll not be seeing many changes right away. It's great to hope though !!

[wingkey1]

And then there's - Increasingly the new (and quite good for that matter) drivers coming in to Cup are not coming from the Busch series. Seems in fact the number from open wheel is well represented in the current top dogs and the good newcomers.

Can't blame a sponser for not wanting to put money in to series that is diminishing as a real "minor league" for Cup.

Maybe it's already dead (Busch).

[Yelk]

What happened to the race fan first crapolla? Seems some favor the popular message board bashing than what they said in other posts(race fan first). Come on folks! Which is it?

[Lefturn]

Originally Posted by Yelk

What happened to the race fan first crapolla? Seems some favor the popular message board bashing than what they said in other posts(race fan first). Come on folks! Which is it?

I'm new here Yelk so I don't have any idea what you are going on about. I don't see how haveing a bunch of Cup regulars in the Busch series is Fan Friendly.

I watch the Busch races when I can but prefer to see young up and comers or Cup regulars in the front. Am I a minority in that? Also, Cup regulars taking the $$$ from the Busch teams is not healthy for the series either, and is one of the reasons non-Cup teams in the series are in trouble. Once again that is bad for the series and the fans.

Are we on the same page or am I way off in left field LOL!

[Souporscotty]

Originally Posted by Yelk

What happened to the race fan first crapolla? Seems some favor the popular message board bashing than what they said in other posts(race fan first). Come on folks! Which is it?

Huh?????????/

[Souporscotty]

Originally Posted by LSC9901

Ahhhh ..... one of my pet peeve subjects. One of the interesting points made so far was that the Cup Lite series is suffering financially. If in fact this is true .. who is to blame for this issue ? I blame NASCAR itself. My feeling is they are in this business just for the profit. I've said it before and I'll say it again. There is nothing wrong with anyone who is in business, to try and make a profit. The question is to what level do you take it before it creates more of a problem than it resolves. Since the Cup series is the top dog series it would make sense to me to try and profit from this as much as possible. In baseball, along with many of the stick & ball sports, they use their minor league system (BUSCH in our case) to bring up the best for the majors. The Red Sox do not use their minor league teams to make money. As a matter of fact it is quite the opposite from that. Maybe it is just time to make Busch what it once was .... a series where the best get rewarded by being promoted to the Cup series. Worry less about making a profit. Obviously the individual teams will need to break even at the very least. Joe's Furniture World isn't going to keep pouring money into a blank hole without seeing some positive outcomes. In my own little world if I cannot make ends meet I try to make reductions in my spending habits.

Some one else metioned that they could stop piggy backing Busch and Cup series races. For some fans that could be good and for others not so good. Many fans like it because it gives them a chance to see two races in just one weekend. NASCAR probably has more luck selling a weekends worth of racing than it does trying to convince you to spend a fortune on two different weekends.

Unless and until NASCAR actually institutes some restrictions on how many races a cup driver can enter in the Busch series or banning them completely, we will continue to have this very discussion. Since, for the most part, we have very little impact on NASCAR officials, we'll not be seeing many changes right away. It's great to hope though !!

I'm sorta with you, but I think it's sorta the FANS fault. We will go to the Busch Races (not me) just because Jeff, Tony,Jmmie etc. Will be running there. The only thing Brian and NA$CAR hear is $$$$$$$$. Boycots are the only thing that will ever work. And let's face it, ain't gonna happen.

[clutch]

The Busch Series should be a minimum 3 year apprenticeship for the Nextel Cup.

Until they have done the three years they cannot go up to Nextel and once they have left they cant go back

I really am against these young guys with little experience in Nextel and a sponsor may spend some bucks if the kid guaranteed to be there for a few years

....JMH..KIWI....O

[BringBackWilkesboro]

Originally Posted by wingkey1

Problem is, unfortunately, the Busch series can no longer sustain itself financially. The permitted "rescue" of the series of late has been to "allow" an increasing influx of the Cup series drivers. .

I partially agree with you Wing. The Busch Series can sustain itself right now, NASCAR is not at a loss for money. It is the teams that wouldn't be able to sustain themselves without Buschwackers. We've all noticed Busch regulars lose sponsorship to the Cup guys. That is understandable. Sponsors want results, and as long as there are Cup guys running in Busch, that is where the sponsors will go. The hole may be too deep to climb out of on that one. And once again we run into the new age fans subject. They are not interested if a big name driver isn't involved. Ticket sales would suffer without the Cup guys. Even if you fix one problem, you have another. If err... Buschwacking was outlawed, would NASCAR be willing to put in enough money to keep a lesser series running? And even if they do, how would the teams keep going? I dont see any way to fix this problem. The Truck Series might be the only answer, but there are too many differences between that and the cup series to really get ample experience, whether it be aero, weight (albeit minor) or the tracks they race at. It would be more difficult to adapt.

[LSC9901]

Originally Posted by Souporscotty

I'm sorta with you, but I think it's sorta the FANS fault. We will go to the Busch Races (not me) just because Jeff, Tony,Jmmie etc. Will be running there. The only thing Brian and NA$CAR hear is $$$$$$$$. Boycots are the only thing that will ever work. And let's face it, ain't gonna happen.

I agree that it is partially the fans fault but I think that if the majority of the weekends didn't contain both the Busch & cup race there would be fewer attending the races period. Realistically it is less likely that you would give up two weekends to do both races. It is also better in your mind to spend a large sum of money once versus spending too much twice. That could be what NA$CAR sees so they combine them and have the big boys in both events.

No matter the reasons I will always be against Cup drivers in the minor league races. If it is about finances for the Busch series then they need to reduce costs or increase revenue without the use of the Cup drivers.